Where should i begin?

[Dominic]

Hello all, my names Dominic and I was born in England but have lived these past 14 years in the Netherlands.

After gaining 2 degrees in law and starting a masters in Philosophy, I have spent the last 10 years working as a sub contractor in the building industry. I always knew I'd never be able to stand in front of a judge to argue a case because of my social anxiety issues. I now work mostly alone which is fine and the money is good but i miss a mental challenge.

After finishing my first 2nd degree i did work for a multinational which ended in disaster when the ceo asked me whether i enjoyed my job in front of a group of people and i replied "no" and then went on a 5 minute tirade of everything that i found disagreeing about my role and the company. I thought i was just being honest!

I have been in a relationship for the last 15 years with a Dutch girl i met in Australia. One of the first things i said to her was "if your looking for somebody who likes holding hands and showing public signs of affection. .. im not the guy for you! ". I embarked on the relationship as a sorry of experiment thinking that, as all holiday romances inevitably do, it would come to an end. It didn't and 15 years later were now married and have a son.

Our wedding was a very pragmatic affair. Monday morning you can get married for free at the town hall here. There were only 2 witnesses present, no photos, no party, no rings, no honeymoon and certainly no merry making! 15 minutes in and out and i was back at work by 9:30.

Let's see what else...i grew up a Catholic, went to Catholic school and all my family/friends were religious. I, however abandoned faith the moment a science book was thrust into my hands. I find other people's acceptance of faith very interesting when i look at the same "evidence" or lack of it and arrive at another conclusion. This along with physics and mathematics in one form or another are my "special topics". It was a very strange experience growing up being the only non believer at school and home and that feeling of being lied to has scarred my thoughts ever since. I therefore find it very difficult to accept what somebody says until I've verified the facts for myself.

Unfortunately, my special topics are the ones that potentially cause the most offence when in discussion with others. Whenever religion is mentioned in my presence it is usually followed by a kick under the table or a grasp of the arm by my wife accompanied by a silently conveyed glance meaning "keep your mouth shut". For my part im just curious and mean no offence. I'm not from the Richard Dawkins militant form of athiesm... i respect everybody's opinions as long as they respect my logic.

At this point in life i don't have any friends and very few colleagues and can go months without having a meaningful conversation with anybody other than my wife or child (to be fair, i have absolutely nothing in common with my wife, no shared interests etc...). I don't know any other aspies but would like to see if socially i get along better with my "own kind". I've never really been part of a group so I'm interested to see how this pans out.

Peace to all...

 

[Vinca]

Hi Dominic and welcome to the site

 

[wyverary]

Welcome, Dominic-born-in-UK-come-to-Netherlands-via-Australia.

 

[Rocco]

Welcome aboard

 

[Datura]

Welcom Dominic.

I am also an atheist and share the feelings you have expressed on the topic. I am a fan of Dawkins, but more for his work on evolution and science education than on atheism. It is always awkward when somebody brings up God in conversation, especially when it is in a fassion that suggests the existence of said entity is a foregone conclusion. I once had some missionaries come to my front door and ask me, "Do you believe that God created the world to be destroyed?" My answer was, "No. God doesn't exist, so it would be impossible for him to create anything." Or there was one time when I was going in for surgery and a co-worker asked if I would like her to say a preyer for me. I kindly declined.

You have quite the impressive credentials. It is unfortunately you cannot find work that is more intelectually stimulating. You might be interested in ressurecting this thread.

 

[Progster]

Hi Dominic, welcome to the forum. I also have no religious faith or beliefs, and am an expat from the UK living abroad.

 

[Elemental]

I always thought that Netherlands seemed like a very decent & enlightened & civilized country that would be good to live in. The geography is pretty fascinating & I like all that water & the huge barges too A former relationship I was in was very pragmatically, almost contractually put to me by the guy but in a way, to have that type of clearly defined remit or set of expectations, helped. I am not a theist either: there are three philosophical arguments offered in support of the existence of a god, all of which rely on the existence of a god in their premise i.e. they are tautological arguments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology

Welcome to Central site Dominic

 

[Dominic]

Thank you for your warm welcome. I can see already from some of the comments here that I find myself amongst good company.

Datura - I kind of waved good-bye to the corporate world a long time ago as like one of the posters mentioned in that thread the wheels tend to come off after I have landed the job and i'm not quite the team player they were expecting. I learned very quickly that it's not necessarily how well you can do the job that counts but how well you can gossip and snipe at your colleagues during coffee breaks and how far you can fit your nose up your line managers &^*# that gets you ahead.

Progster - I am interested to hear how you transitioned from the familiar surrounding of home to a new culture/country. For example, when I left for university, it was such a shock to the system that I didn't dare come out of my room for several days. Throughout my time I missed probably 80% of my classes, attending only those classes that were compulsory. I still managed to pass with honors. At the end of my time there I could count 2 people as friends. I don't keep in touch with either of them any more.

On the other hand, when I went backpacking after university for 18 months I found the whole experience largely positive. I could do pretty much what I wanted and I could be alone when I wanted. I immersed myself in the things I enjoyed and at one point I was reading from dawn to dusk. Likewise, when I moved to the Netherlands, I could hide a lot of my social awkwardness as I was new to the culture. I wasn't expected to participate in conversation and know all of those unwritten social rules as I couldn't speak the language and was a foreigner. It's only after I learned the language and lived here for a longer period of time that others begun to notice that I was "different".

Elemental - Yeah, i'm familiar with the tautological arguments. It's like being on merry go round you can't get off of... the longer i'm exposed to it the more nauseous and light-headedI become.

 

[malortie]

Dominic

Welcome to the forums.

People here, along with myself will make sure to help you and give you tips on how to deal with these situations, which are often challenging for most of the people here, as well as myself.

 

[Cosmophylla]

Hi Dominic, welcome and thanks for the excellent introduction. I feel the same as you regarding religion but I have learnt to keep my opinions to myself for a couple reasons. One is to avoid offending people I care about. The other is because I find it very hard to express myself verbally in a face to face situation, so no matter how logical my thoughts are, when under pressure I can't access those thoughts, I can't see them in my mind. So I may say something brilliant to start a conversation, but once I have to then listen to others and process their words, I get really confused and flustered.

 

[Dominic]

That's a very good question. I know that she finds it difficult at times to deal with the lack of affection. I just don't see or understand that some people need it so no matter how often she says "sometimes i just need a hug" i can't seem to process that and the next day I'm still left wondering "did she really mean that, was it really necessary? ". And, apart from that, i don't recognise when she was feeling down in the first place because i'm terribly poor at recognising these emotions.

She also finds my interactions with her family difficult as like a lot of aspies i don't do small talk and can therefore come across as cold or uncaring. So, before we visit i get told a list of subjects i can talk about and what to ask certain family members. That certainly helps but when people begin to "gossip" i still find it difficult to hide my boredom.

It's important that she knows that I am not choosing to do this on purpose. I just don't see it. And I suppose it also helps to remember that I literally gave up everything to be with her. I gave up my home, my country and moved out of my comfort zone so I think that shows that I really care more than any physical gesture does.

A real concern for both of us though was how i would interact with my son. I didn't want him growing up feeling unloved so i really make an effort to tell him that I am proud of him and that i love him. When he comes home from school my wife reminds me to give him a kiss and a hug and I do my best to make that as natural as possible. I'm not really a playful father though as I don't like the mess and the noise that entails so I try and spend time with him in other ways.

 

[granolaturtle]

Hey there!

We're a diverse community and very well moderated. If you have questions, there's a section for that. If you just want to hang out or rant, there's sections for that, too. I'm a bit more of a humanities type, myself, but philosophy is a fun discussion. I prefer ethics to things like metaphysics, though.

I happen to be a Christian and as far as debate goes, I only feel the need to do it if it's implied that I'm intellectually inferior. Religion is another one of my interests, and that also extends to other religions! (I have a copy of a Quran as well as the Bible).

You'll fit right in here, so don't be shy!

 

[paulb]

That's a very good question. I know that she finds it difficult at times to deal with the lack of affection. I just don't see or understand that some people need it so no matter how often she says "sometimes i just need a hug" i can't seem to process that and the next day I'm still left wondering "did she really mean that, was it really necessary? ". And, apart from that, i don't recognise when she was feeling down in the first place because i'm terribly poor at recognising these emotions.

She also finds my interactions with her family difficult as like a lot of aspies i don't do small talk and can therefore come across as cold or uncaring. So, before we visit i get told a list of subjects i can talk about and what to ask certain family members. That certainly helps but when people begin to "gossip" i still find it difficult to hide my boredom.

It's important that she knows that I am not choosing to do this on purpose. I just don't see it. And I suppose it also helps to remember that I literally gave up everything to be with her. I gave up my home, my country and moved out of my comfort zone so I think that shows that I really care more than any physical gesture does.

A real concern for both of us though was how i would interact with my son. I didn't want him growing up feeling unloved so i really make an effort to tell him that I am proud of him and that i love him. When he comes home from school my wife reminds me to give him a kiss and a hug and I do my best to make that as natural as possible. I'm not really a playful father though as I don't like the mess and the noise that entails so I try and spend time with him in other ways.

I agree so much on the "I guess don't "get" the 'kissy huggy' part of people, and we never will. So we have to ACT that we do, and in your case, it is most important for your boy to 'see' happiness in the family. He's probably possesses some of your brain level, so he is not easily fooled.
You might not understand all this emotional stuff, but your smart enough to get ahead of the game.
Be first to surprise her with an unexpected gift, flowers, iTunes money card, just something unique, but truly nice and a little 'out there' like the person she knows your are. And do this forever til your dead. Life is easiest with niceness and please and thank you. AND always ask 'how she is doing'. That will throw her off.
It throws us off when constantly asked for hugs, but when you finally givery that hug, she most likey is rolling hers eyes . This is my experience talking and I'm way ahead of you on the longevity trail, way ahead.
Good luck, and remember your boy needs the both of you.

 

[Dominic]

Hey there!

We're a diverse community and very well moderated. If you have questions, there's a section for that. If you just want to hang out or rant, there's sections for that, too. I'm a bit more of a humanities type, myself, but philosophy is a fun discussion. I prefer ethics to things like metaphysics, though.

I happen to be a Christian and as far as debate goes, I only feel the need to do it if it's implied that I'm intellectually inferior. Religion is another one of my interests, and that also extends to other religions! (I have a copy of a Quran as well as the Bible).

You'll fit right in here, so don't be shy!

Thank you, and don't worry I would never think somebody as being intellectually inferior just because they have arrived at a different conclusion to me. For me the fun part is how they have arrived at the conclusion... the thought processes that went into it and how they have applied logic to the question/answer. This stems from the fact that in any given group I am almost always the one who arrives at a different conclusion using different logic to the others, in my mind I can see the logic and explain the logic, but usually the NT's can't keep up.

I agree, having a varied knowledge of a subject can be the only way to form an opinion so I am happy to hear you look at all of the religions. I for my part do the same, I have read all the holy books of the abrahamic religions as well as those of buddhism and hinduism. My personal favourite is the bhagavad gita.

 

[Dominic]

I agree so much on the "I guess don't "get" the 'kissy huggy' part of people, and we never will. So we have to ACT that we do, and in your case, it is most important for your boy to 'see' happiness in the family. He's probably possesses some of your brain level, so he is not easily fooled.
You might not understand all this emotional stuff, but your smart enough to get ahead of the game.
Be first to surprise her with an unexpected gift, flowers, iTunes money card, just something unique, but truly nice and a little 'out there' like the person she knows your are. And do this forever til your dead. Life is easiest with niceness and please and thank you. AND always ask 'how she is doing'. That will throw her off.
It throws us off when constantly asked for hugs, but when you finally givery that hug, she most likey is rolling hers eyes . This is my experience talking and I'm way ahead of you on the longevity trail, way ahead.
Good luck, and remember your boy needs the both of you.

Hello Paul,

thanks for the advice. It's funny that you mention that I should try to surprise her as I have just this past week built into my agenda prompts to do just that. So I have selected dates where I will now get a reminder to buy flowers for example, or to give a hug, or to ask how her day has been. I won't do it everyday because I fear it will come across as being too scripted but every now an then will manageable for me.

My son's happiness is very important but I fear as he grows up my differences will become more apparent and I don't want him to feel embarassed by my wierdness. For example, he plays for our local football team (soccer depending on where your from) and usually thats really something for "the guys". The touchline is filled with proud fathers cheering their son's on. I'm the father standing as far away from everybody else as possible so nobody will talk to me. My wife has to take him to training and deals with teachers at school etc... I was also abused as a child so I have extra anxiety with dealing and trusting people.

I remain a work in progress, but I am determined to make headway!

 

[Ste11aeres]

Thank you, and don't worry I would never think somebody as being intellectually inferior just because they have arrived at a different conclusion to me. For me the fun part is how they have arrived at the conclusion... the thought processes that went into it and how they have applied logic to the question/answer.

I agree with you there. I am currently studying philosophy at a university and the discussions/debates with professors and fellow students can be quite enjoyable.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I prefer ethics to things like metaphysics, though.

I'm the total opposite. I love metaphysics. Ethics? Not so much. (I want to be ethical, I'm just not that interested in it as a philosophical subject. In addition, I get upset when I consider that if someone has wrong ethical views, those views could affect their actions, and therefore lead to other people being harmed).
We are a diverse community, aren't we?

 

[Dominic]

I agree with you there. I am currently studying philosophy at a university and the discussions/debates with professors and fellow students can be quite enjoyable.

Thats really good to hear, I have a masters in philosophy, however, I found that philosophy usually poses more questions than it can answer and I am interested in getting as close to the "truth" as I can. I think it was Bertrand Russell (a fantastic individual and I would thoroughly recommend you reading his autobiography if you haven't already) who argued that whilst philosophy takes its subject matter from our everyday experiences and the sciences it constantly remains at the level of conceptual analysis and so time and time again fails to produce definitive "positive results". Those questions that can be answered are usually dealt with by science and those are the most fascinating ones for me at the moment.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Thats really good to hear, I have a masters in philosophy, however, I found that philosophy usually poses more questions than it can answer and I am interested in getting as close to the "truth" as I can. I think it was Bertrand Russell (a fantastic individual and I would thoroughly recommend you reading his autobiography if you haven't already) who argued that whilst philosophy takes its subject matter from our everyday experiences and the sciences it constantly remains at the level of conceptual analysis and so time and time again fails to produce definitive "positive results". Those questions that can be answered are usually dealt with by science and those are the most fascinating ones for me at the moment.

I view philosophy more as a matter of contemplating what is already known, rather than as discovering new facts.
Of course, while my view works well for a private intellectual life, it is a bit at odds with a university approach, where, in philosophy, you have to try to "prove" things through argument.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Thats really good to hear, I have a masters in philosophy, however, I found that philosophy usually poses more questions than it can answer and I am interested in getting as close to the "truth" as I can. I think it was Bertrand Russell (a fantastic individual and I would thoroughly recommend you reading his autobiography if you haven't already) who argued that whilst philosophy takes its subject matter from our everyday experiences and the sciences it constantly remains at the level of conceptual analysis and so time and time again fails to produce definitive "positive results". Those questions that can be answered are usually dealt with by science and those are the most fascinating ones for me at the moment.

It actually sounds like Epistemology might be the type of philosophy you find most interesting. Is that what you studied? What was your particular area of emphasis/specialization?