Shyness and ASD

[Nadador]

I do think shyness is a common response in many with ASDs, but I would distinguish that from an essential trait.

I believe we learn to keep to ourselves once we start to realise that we are different, and it gets reinforced by so many others around us who fail to understand who we are, how we think, and how we engage with the world. We start to doubt ourselves, and become alien. Were we not subjected to these early messages, I'm not so sure we'd be all that shy. At least not with any more frequency than an NT.

 

[Ellylldan]

I am very shy. But it's not my real nature... I was "forced" to become like that. When I was little, up to the third grade of elementary school, more or less, I was very open, very talkative and happy child. I liked people in general and would talk to nearly anyone (except people I didn't like for some reason, my mom said I would just refuse talking to them). I liked playing with other kids, too. School was fun at first but at certain point it was like everyone changed and I didn't. Very fast I became an outsider and had to learn the hard way to keep my thoughts to myself. I shut myself in my world and since then the communication with the outside world has been a huge distressing thing for me. In university times my urge to express myself manifested itself with blue hair, but talking? Nope, not much at all.

I learned to believe that nobody is interested in my opinion. Even if I have something to say during a conversation in a group of people, I am always afraid that what I want to say is not important enough to be said and I think about it until it's too late and the conversation went on..

Now, that I live in a country where people talk a lot and I have a musician husband, which means I meet a lot of people, I am still the silent and awkward one whose presence is almost always only physical, but whose mind is somewhere else. I still have a very hard time talking to people, even those that I know pretty well after years.

I can be myself - my happy, excited and talkative self - only with my family and another two persons. With them I don't have any problem to talk about anything, even about my beloved sharks! Now, that I live far from my parents and sister, when we talk on skype, they often tell me that they miss having me around telling them all those never-ending stories about my interests or about books I just read. Hehe, yeah...

 

[Nadador]

This is the strangest area of my life as an aspie. I grew up incredibly shy and I believe I still am, just as I am still socially awkward in most arenas. However, I made a choice 'way back when' to make a living out of my special interest and I was suddenly thrown into the glare of being in the public eye.

That'll do it. Same here. I had to dig deep and find the spirit I had before I ever knew I was an outsider. If I hadn't found it, I couldn't have withstood the demands of being in the spotlight. The opportunity to make a living from my passion gave me motivation to do the digging. I had a lot of defencive layers to chisel through, by then. I had been rendered quite isolated, and yes, shy, by so many years of feeling out of place.

...(edit) I picked up the sheaf of papers and threw them into the crowd and just said 'What d'you want to know?'

...(edit) None of my students would ever say I was 'shy', they would read this and think I was just winding people up. They never saw me off the stage.

That moment of throwing away the script [in your case, literally] was pivotal for me as well. The things I had been taught about how I was supposed to be, and wasn't, had me in chains. Once I realised I was in a position to throw all of that off, I had no trouble being a right old showman. I think the fact that we have been the centre of attention helped us. When you're the only one in command, you don't have to compare yourself anymore. Step off that "stage", though, back into the crowd, and the awkward, isolated chap returns. At least that's how it's gone for me.

I get invited to private social functions just once, I'm a one trick pony, the guy that will entertain your guests with tales of his special interests. But that is it, you can't do that twice to the same crowd. As long as it's a new audience I can play the game, otherwise, I will sit quietly and not engage despite my hosts best effort. As you can imagine, that doesn't go down well.

A conversation here yesterday made me reflect upon past relationships and I was astounded by the realisation that I have never asked someone to go out with me. Despite a list of relationships that would make a gigolo proud I never asked a single person, they asked me, which is frightening. What is worse is knowing that they were asking the 'clown' and not the shy guy.

Is there any chance that I'm actually you?

For me, shyness and introversion are different.

Agreed. I've known many socially gregarious introverts, and as many shy extroverts.

(If I do flirt I don't know about it. Must be off my awareness)

Or it could be all you ever do, making it impossible to distinguish.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I do think shyness is a common response in many with ASDs, but I would distinguish that from an essential trait.

I believe we learn to keep to ourselves once we start to realise that we are different, and it gets reinforced by so many others around us who fail to understand who we are, how we think, and how we engage with the world. We start to doubt ourselves, and become alien. Were we not subjected to these early messages, I'm not so sure we'd be all that shy. At least not with any more frequency than an NT.

I agree that it's not an essential trait. But I do think it can be inborn as a result of aspieness or similar social/developmental complications. Just the fact that social energy can be so overwhelming to an aspie, it tends to send a small child burrowing his nose into his mother's skirts.

Having such strong aspie traits myself, even before I knew what to call it, I've become a student of each of my kids and not only noticed but actually encouraged whatever unique traits they have (for the most part...dysfunctional traits like manipulative personality traits are addressed more remedially).

And yet still I've noticed that at different ages, they can get overwhelmed with social energy, especially from people they don't know, and have to pull away, even though two of them are more extroverted than introverted. Sometimes they struggle with approaching other kids, or performing a social task like placing their own food order at a restaurant, for example.

We don't demean them for these behaviors (well, usually not...being honest), and my psychology-geared brain develops ways to help them face the issues that need to be addressed without pushing them beyond what they're ready to handle. So the three olders have developed some pretty good social skills to overcome innate shyness (still working on the little guy).

But it was definitely there, in various ways, with each of them long before they became socially wounded. My oldest daughter, in fact, was so sensitive as a newborn that if anyone in the room laughed...not at her, just laughed at anything, even if they weren't standing close by...she started crying. She was convinced at just a couple of weeks old that they were making fun of her!

 

[Harrison]

That'll do it. Same here. I had to dig deep and find the spirit I had before I ever knew I was an outsider. If I hadn't found it, I couldn't have withstood the demands of being in the spotlight. The opportunity to make a living from my passion gave me motivation to do the digging. I had a lot of defencive layers to chisel through, by then. I had been rendered quite isolated, and yes, shy, by so many years of feeling out of place.




That moment of throwing away the script [in your case, literally] was pivotal for me as well. The things I had been taught about how I was supposed to be, and wasn't, had me in chains. Once I realised I was in a position to throw all of that off, I had no trouble being a right old showman. I think the fact that we have been the centre of attention helped us. When you're the only one in command, you don't have to compare yourself anymore. Step off that "stage", though, back into the crowd, and the awkward, isolated chap returns. At least that's how it's gone for me.




Is there any chance that I'm actually you?




Agreed. I've known many socially gregarious introverts, and as many shy extroverts.




Or it could be all you ever do, making it impossible to distinguish.

I think we were both fortunate in being pushed into the limelight at that time. The passion of our interests must have dragged our personalities kicking and screaming into this world.

Agreed, when I step onto a stage it's as if the universe bends to my will. It probably sounds arrogant but, in fact, I was always in awe of how much power people will apportion you to get what they want. I sometimes think I never created 'me', the audience did, like some Hebrew golem they breathed life into the being on stage.

As you say, leave the stage and it's back to isolation.

We may actually be each other if we accept a multiverse theory. How messed up would that be

Maybe I do flirt all the while, I'd need a independent observer.

(Typing this on iPad so editing might be all over the shop)

 

[Nadador]

I agree that it's not an essential trait. But I do think it can be inborn as a result of aspieness or similar social/developmental complications. Just the fact that social energy can be so overwhelming to an aspie, it tends to send a small child burrowing his nose into his mother's skirts.

Having such strong aspie traits myself, even before I knew what to call it, I've become a student of each of my kids and not only noticed but actually encouraged whatever unique traits they have (for the most part...dysfunctional traits like manipulative personality traits are addressed more remedially).

I'd be a fool to disagree with a mom about observations she has made of her own children. Luckily, I don't happen to disagree at all. Everything you said makes perfect sense. Thanks for the new bit of understanding.

 

[Nadador]

Agreed, when I step onto a stage it's as if the universe bends to my will. It probably sounds arrogant but, in fact, I was always in awe of how much power people will apportion you to get what they want. I sometimes think I never created 'me', the audience did, like some Hebrew golem they breathed life into the being on stage.

This resonates with me to my bones. That's why I cant carry that bloke home with me. He isn't really there, except in other people's heads. They send up their own image of me like a projection on a screen. From there, I just do the dance required to make it move.

EDIT: It's just another way of hiding, really.

We may actually be each other if we accept a multiverse theory. How messed up would that be

I'm just chuffed to be suddenly part Tibetan.

Maybe I do flirt all the while, I'd need a independent observer.

Stop flirting with me. You're making me uncomfortable. Moderator?

[We both need a bloody life. We've been on here all day.]

 

[On the Inside]

This resonates with me to my bones. That's why I cant carry that bloke home with me. He isn't really there, except in other people's heads. They send up their own image of me like a projection on a screen. From there, I just do the dance required to make it move.

Agreed, when I step onto a stage it's as if the universe bends to my will. It probably sounds arrogant but, in fact, I was always in awe of how much power people will apportion you to get what they want. I sometimes think I never created 'me', the audience did, like some Hebrew golem they breathed life into the being on stage.

As you say, leave the stage and it's back to isolation.

I can relate to this myself. When I was being evaluated for ASD, the neuropsych administering the tests was surprised to hear that I had been in retail sales (ski and bicycle equipment) when I was in my teens and twenties. These were jobs that required a lot of solo talking to groups of people all day long. Thing is, bike and skis were (and are) intense interests of mine, I devoured information about them. I could talk all day about them. It was like I was on stage with mini audiences, giving lectures.

After work, I would be extremely relieved, and go back into my shell. Unless I was with one of my fellow ski/bike geek friends.

 

[Harrison]

I can relate to this myself. When I was being evaluated for ASD, the neuropsych administering the tests was surprised to hear that I had been in retail sales (ski and bicycle equipment) when I was in my teens and twenties. These were jobs that required a lot of solo talking to groups of people all day long. Thing is, bike and skis were (and are) intense interests of mine, and I could talk all day about them. It was like I was on stage with mini audiences, giving lectures.

After work, I would be extremely relieved, and go back into my shell. Unless I was with one of my fellow ski/bike geek friends.

Yep, that's the feeling.

 

[clg114]

I don't see myself as shy. I see myself as some one who doesn't say anything unless he has some thing to say. If we're talking about some thing that I'm interested in, I can talk your leg off. The subject matter means a lot more to me than who I'm talking to. The problem is that very few people have the same interests as me. Guess I must be a weirdo.

 

[Progster]

As a child, I was always considered to be a very shy child because of my lack of interaction and underconfidence, and I was diagnosed with Social Phobia back in 1991. But I think that with me it's more that I don't have anything to say in conversations, or I find it hard to join in because the conversation is going too fast, so it just looks like I'm shy, it's not always the case that I'm too shy to join in. Having said that, I'm still very shy with strangers and need quite a while before I can feel comfortable with them. I don't like going into small shops or boutiques because the salesperson will try to interact, and that's the kind of shyness that comes from social anxiety. Generally speaking, I'm introverted and not a very talkative person; I tend to talk in short bursts and get tired quickly. This can also be interpreted as shyness.

Like Harrison54, I was put in a situation where I had to talk and interact a lot with others, because I became a teacher. I learnt to detach myself from myself and project a new personality in order to be able to do this. But even though I was teaching languages, a special interest, it wasn't me, it was contrary to my true nature and exhausting. Ultimately I paid the price because I was never very affective at dealing with large groups of people, especially kids, and I had to give that job up. Before my diagnosis I used to force situations upon myself where I'm forced to act contrary to my true nature and then become exhausted, but now I'm less inclined to do this.

 

[On the Inside]

Even though I consider myself a shy introvert, I understand. I often don't say anything because I have nothing to say.

Subject matter matters. But who I'm talking to matters as well. Actually, the fact that I'm talking to anyone matters. But I will be more talkative if I have an interest in the subject.

 

[Naturalist]

I learned to believe that nobody is interested in my opinion. Even if I have something to say during a conversation in a group of people, I am always afraid that what I want to say is not important enough to be said and I think about it until it's too late and the conversation went on.

Ellylldan, I know exactly what you mean here. Have done this many times myself. Friends and family have even TOLD me that "no one cares about that [what I said]." It does discourage participation when you are afraid your input will be poorly received. I am sorry that you have had a similar experience.

 

[lsd_]

Basically first and foremost.,my social anxiety kicks in, in public and in a setting in which I must speak, that is make words come out my self in a general aspect I tend to get fidgety and get really self conscious,for example,like I start to think about my physical appearance,explains sunglasses must be on

 

[legoland]

@Isd_ sunglasses helps me a lot in punblic presentations too

 

[Suzanne]

I am painfully shy and even at the ripe age of 44, blush like crazy and hate it with a passion!

If I feel unsure of being liked, I will not even talk but when I know that I am liked, I am pretty loud! In fact, when I get animated, my voice goes up several notches and believe it or not, but I am completely unaware, until someone says: hush to me and that just about crushes me!

 

[googoochajoob]

I am terribly shy. A few days ago a kid in one of my classes told me he'd never heard me speak before. I guess I don't have many friends because of shyness.

 

[Dylanperr]

I am a very very shy and introverted person if any of you wanted to know.

 

[invisibility003]

I've always been pretty shy and introverted too, although if I'm with a person I feel comfortable with, I am usually slightly more confident and have no trouble chatting away if it's something I'm interested in.