Me Aspergers?

[zylon]

1. I definitely, and extremely, am not NT. Is Asperger's just defined as what it is not?
2. I have been officially diagnosed with Aspergers.
3. From what I have read from my diagnosers, they do not understand me at all and have me all wrong.
4. From what I read about Aspergers, I am just as different from them as I am from NTs.
5. I am not a "high functioning" version of anything. My condition is severe and very far from NTs.
6. I am definitely not anything currently on the DSM. I must be put somewhere on the DSM to be in "treatment". My condition involves virtually every psychological realm (pervasive) and is inborn (developmental) and stable, and causes profound problems (disorder). (therefore, is PDD by definition). I had no speech delay (HFA), I am not intellectually retarded (classic autism), and I am not in any way "between" autistic and NT (PDD-nos) Therefore, I must be classified Asperger by default.

 

[Ereth]

Welcome!

1. No, not really. It's a bit more complicated than that.

3. What have you read?

4. You'll find that no two people on the spectrum are exactly the same.

5. I've always understood "high-functioning" to mean that we are high-functioning relative to people with "classic" autism.

 

[zylon]

1. Besides what it is not (i.e. not good at socializing, not NT, not another DSM category), what defines Asperger Syndrome?
3. I have read about me things like mind blindness, not knowing how to be a good friend, not having imaginative play, that I lack metaphor and humor, and have many other traits associated with asperger. But the worst thing is not the errors they make about me, but that they leave out all of my real core problems: My social problems are secondary to my environmental interface problems, which result in me having different interests, feelings, and abilities than other people. For example, as a child I did very much have imaginative play, but I just did not want to play games, not even by myself. I can be, and have been, a very good, close, affectionate friend, as long as they do not demand of me too much interface with the outside world, and the world lets me choose who my friends are.
There's much, much more than that, but I don't want this message to get too long.
4. Aspies may not be exactly the same as each other, but they must have some core traits which defines asperger in common, or else the term "asperger" is meaningless.
5. I am definitely not low functioning in the same way as those with classic autism, but I may be as low functioning as some of them in a different way.

I really hope that I am wrong about AS not being able to include me. It's nice to belong.

And I know I seem selfish so far on this forum, but I am currently in a bad way.

 

[Ereth]

Some of the traits related to Asperger's (well, autism in general) include: social awkwardness/"blindness," intense obsession with interests, and tics and stims (ex: hand waving). I'm not a medical professional, but based on what I've read and observed on this forum and on my old one, I would say the first two traits may be considered "primary" and therefore common. I understand what you are saying regarding your level of function. Many of us here can relate.

Honestly, the DSM-V may have removed Asperger's syndrome as a diagnostic label, but that doesn't mean you don't belong. I wouldn't worry about that too much. You're certainly welcome here.

 

[Atay]

You sound a lot like me! Seriously, and that is why it took until age 35 (last year) to finally figure it out. I am highly creative/imaginative, make a pretty good friend, and actually can socialize pretty well with NTs. I also lot metaphor (I'm a writer), and express empathy readily.

First "male" version Aspergers typically exhibit extremely very different symptoms from females (with females typically being more skilled with socializing, empathy, and are often more interested in imaginative play). However, this can also be true of males. For example, my son has Aspergers as well, but he exhibits more of the female version.
A few traits that I consistently observe amongst my Aspergian friends are the following:
- Highly sensitive to environmental stimuli.
- The tendency to hyper-focus in a small number of interest areas.
- Difficulty coping with NT conversations due to boredom and/or confusion .
- Difficulty limiting personal input around topic areas of interest.
- Difficulty managing interests due to having too many expectations.

There are others, but those some thoughts.

 

[zylon]

Thank you Atay and Ereth.
What I am looking for is "Asperger is defined as ...", not, "Some Aspies have this and some have that". Ereth said "social awkwardness/blindness, intense obsession with interests, and tics and stims" are "traits related to" and are "common" among Aspies, which still leaves the question "what are Aspies?"
I am a little afraid of revealing myself for fear that you will conclude that I am not Asperger and reject, or ignore, me. But I guess I should tell you about myself, which I will do a little in the following post:

 

[zylon]

A little about me:

Most of the differences between me and NTs, and the problems they cause, has at its core a block between me and my physical environment, causing my interests, tastes, desires, abilities, and entire orientation to life and reality to be profoundly different from NTs. I am not "doing" oriented, and have no interest and poor ability in interface in the physical world. Such interface can be extremely painful to me. NTs interests and abilities are primarily for physical world interface, and this is what they use for socialization. For example, their small talk usually refers to how they feel about what is going on in their environment. They would be bored with my philosophical mathematical analysis, and I would be bored with their sports.

Even as a child, I did not like games. Social dynamics, i.e. what people do, does not interest me, because I am not interested in doing. (I like clams better than tigers) I do very much, however, want and need social interface, deep and emotionally involved, but except for hugging and cuddling, it would be very undynamic physically. Not only am I into hugging and cuddling, but they are my ONLY natural behaviors (is that compatible with Aspergers?)
But I do not think in terms of what someone does, only who they are. This can be a good thing, because my love is unconditional; it is to who the person is, not to what a person does (remember, I am not "doing" oriented, for myself or for others). I cringe when I see someone working; I have to tell myself that they do not feel the pain I would feel in their place. Because attempted interface with the environment causes me extreme psychological pain, I cannot work or go to school. (I did manage a high school diploma, but after that, I've had it.)
I often do not behave outwardly, I could just stare or freeze. I know what it means when I see other people emote, but since I am not "doing" oriented, I may not emote. My feelings are deep and inward. Therefore, it is they who are mind blind of me, I am not mind blind of them.

I was born this way; my brain became full as a young child; I am psychologically exactly the same as I was as a young child (except for accumulated knowledge). I am genderless, ageless, and neither perceive nor do sex as NTs know it. My "sexual" fantasies would be rated G, and are the same as they were as a young child. Pornography has no meaning to me, other than being disgusting. Infants are also disgusting to me.
I panic if I sit on a swing, or if anyone picked me up as a baby. I cannot swim, ride a bike, clime on bars, or become involved in the world. My short term and working memory is very bad, but my conceptual intelligence is abnormally high (e.g. Einstein's theory of relativity is very easy for me to understand) This splits my intelligence horribly.

There's a lot more, but this post is getting too long.

But my core seems to be an inborn split from the physical world (i.e. I am not "doing" oriented). Social problems are secondary to that. For me to be Asperger, that must be Asperger too.

 

[Atay]

Aspies are generally not rejecting in my experience, but I can speak for myself that I never reject anyone unless they're mean with intent.

 

[Atay]

My prior post was being written while you posted; in case there is any confusion.

MANY of the characteristics are typical of Aspergers, and I can see why you were diagnosed as such. The environmental stimulation component is hard for me, but much more intense in your case. For example, I share the gravitational insecurity you have in swings, but I can still do it for 1-2 minutes. Lots of other examples...

In my autism group, there are several members that you strongly remind me of. Those are also the members that have the strongest "math" brains. They tend to be the most bothered by any areas of vagueness in the diagnosis.

Anyway, you sound very much like one of us. Hopefully, this will be a good resource for you. Welcome.

 

[zylon]

Aspies are generally not rejecting in my experience, but I can speak for myself that I never reject anyone unless they're mean with intent.

Thank you for that!

 

[zylon]

My prior post was being written while you posted; in case there is any confusion.

MANY of the characteristics are typical of Aspergers, and I can see why you were diagnosed as such. The environmental stimulation component is hard for me, but much more intense in your case. For example, I share the gravitational insecurity you have in swings, but I can still do it for 1-2 minutes. Lots of other examples...


Hopefully, this will be a good resource for you. Welcome.

Yes, I would like to see other examples.

Swings feel very insecure, but I would not describe it as "stimulation".

It's not the environmental stimulation which bothers me, its when I have to respond to the environment. I can see now that my term "interface" can mean both input and output, but it's the output which is my problem. I liked the fireworks I saw yesterday; it did not bother me at all. However, don't ask me to DO the fireworks. I look but I do not touch. As a baby, you never had to fear that I would touch the stove; I did not reach out to touch anything. I was all intake and very little output. Except for affection; affection comes naturally to me, it is hard for me to resist hugging someone who looks sad, scared, or unwanted, and is in fact the ONLY output behavior that comes naturally to me. However, I must know without a doubt that the person wants the affection, otherwise I would be very afraid to initiate it. I would feel the desire to hug them bursting in me, but I would be frozen from shyness.

 

[Atay]

A couple of other things I readily connect with - I have a terrible working memory, but a fantastic grasp of concepts and complicated ideas. I instinctively approach my field in much the same way as Einstein did - "what must be?" as opposed to "what do I see?" It's been very successful. I can also see patterns easily where others cannot. However, my working memory is so bad that I have to constantly document every little tiny discovery. My email and calendar reminders are inundated with theories and discoveries. So annoying... Also, cuddling is very important to me. Being a non-verbal communication form, it's soothing. Also, it releases oxytocin, which is generally low in Aspies, and improves several of my faculties. This causes me to crave cuddling for the oxytocin release.

I am curious about your dopamine and adrenal pathways. I know I have very high dopamine normally, and am therefore highly reactive to my world. However, I just went through a physiological transition that temporarily caused me to have very low dopamine (I believe, based upon relevant research). It was fascinating. Days suddenly took much longer, I was suddenly not very reactive to my environment, and I became so "in the moment" that it became very hard to do anything or make plans. It was like a whole different set of symptoms and characteristics took over. Reacting to things felt much more difficult, and working was somewhat intolerable for awhile.

Do you have any idea what your brain chemistry looks like?

 

[zylon]

A couple of other things I readily connect with - I have a terrible working memory, but a fantastic grasp of concepts and complicated ideas. I instinctively approach my field in much the same way as Einstein did - "what must be?" as opposed to "what do I see?" It's been very successful. I can also see patterns easily where others cannot. However, my working memory is so bad that I have to constantly document every little tiny discovery. My email and calendar reminders are inundated with theories and discoveries. So annoying... Also, cuddling is very important to me. Being a non-verbal communication form, it's soothing. Also, it releases oxytocin, which is generally low in Aspies, and improves several of my faculties. This causes me to crave cuddling for the oxytocin release.

I am curious about your dopamine and adrenal pathways. I know I have very high dopamine normally, and am therefore highly reactive to my world. However, I just went through a physiological transition that temporarily caused me to have very low dopamine (I believe, based upon relevant research). It was fascinating. Days suddenly took much longer, I was suddenly not very reactive to my environment, and I became so "in the moment" that it became very hard to do anything or make plans. It was like a whole different set of symptoms and characteristics took over. Reacting to things felt much more difficult, and working was somewhat intolerable for awhile.

Do you have any idea what your brain chemistry looks like?

1. My conceptual thinking comes from what I call "elemental perception", i.e. I can see the elements of a conceptual set. For example, the concept of energy can be analyzed into the underlying reality, then assembled again to realize that space-time-mass-energy-force is just different forms of the same thing. Likewise, morality is just a pleasure(true morality) or obedience (demanded morality) combined with the inherent complications of reality (e.g. that there are more than one mind or time involved, that the volition and the receiver are not the same). In that way, I have solved all philosophical paradoxes.

2.What is your field?

3.I think my brain chemistry is normal, relative to the stresses of my environment. Psychoactive drugs would hurt me, (with the exception of caffeine, which makes me feel a little better) because my chemistry is just doing its job normally. What is non-NT about my brain is the "wiring" itself; I am a mutant adapted for a different world than this one. In the proper world, I would be completely happy. My brain is totally compatible with itself, except for a tic which I inherited from my father's side, and the annoying poor short term memory.

 

[zylon]

I just finished the complete guide to Asperger's Syndrome and it is a good read. I am half Aspie and half NT depending on how I answer Aspietets.org questions. I made a copy of all the questions and made my own comments to them. I don't get along with NT's but I can tolerate them.

Those questions contain assumptions which do not apply to me. Therefore, my answers would be misleading.
I remember one question "would you rather visit a museum or a theater?" Of course that depends on the subject of the place, but assuming the subject was the same, is the question statistical or theoretical? Statistically, theaters usually contain movie plots, and my taste in movie plots is very different from NTs. If all these complications are removed from the question, and just the nature of the two places are considered, what would concern me is the fact that in a theater I just observe; there is no active interface between me and the screen. A museum demands more such interface. But I've been told that this is not what the question is referring to, but rather the noise level is what the tester has in mind. I didn't even think of that.
I get along with any NT who does not demand a reaction from me, as long as they accept me.
I don't know how Aspie I am, but I am 0% NT.

 

[Atay]

Well, it's interesting perspectives such as yours that keep my on this forum. So much more interesting than the conversations I have with NTs. Have you considered publishing your concepts?

My area of research is psychology. I have been working to breakdown the components of the human emotional framework so that I can analyze the purpose and best practice for each emotion, how they each form completion, how each interacts with the other emotions, the specific obstacles that prevent completion, and how this specifically causes mental health issues. It's a lot of fun. Because my field is inundated with well-meaning NTs, there is a wealth of inefficiency, and an emphasis on emotional support over resolving the problem. At least there's plenty to do...

 

[Sass]

This question plagues me too. I'm not NT, from what I can tell, but then my aspie-ness isn't 'normal' either. I don't think anyone is a 'normal' version of anything. I'm starting to see less and less of a benefit of being diagnosed either way. I mean, some of the most f*cked up people I know sit on both sides of the supposed spectrum. The divisive nature of the whole thing (spectrum vs NT) leaves me uneasy and with more questions than I had before.

 

[zylon]

Well, it's interesting perspectives such as yours that keep my on this forum. So much more interesting than the conversations I have with NTs. Have you considered publishing your concepts?

My area of research is psychology. I have been working to breakdown the components of the human emotional framework so that I can analyze the purpose and best practice for each emotion, how they each form completion, how each interacts with the other emotions, the specific obstacles that prevent completion, and how this specifically causes mental health issues. It's a lot of fun. Because my field is inundated with well-meaning NTs, there is a wealth of inefficiency, and an emphasis on emotional support over resolving the problem. At least there's plenty to do...

1. I have considered publishing. However, my core problem prevents this (without help). Except for spur of the moment answer sessions, such as my posts on this forum, if I try to say "now, sit down and write my concepts", my mind will go blank. Also, I don't know how to publish anything, and I probably couldn't handle the steps anyway. Publishing is a "worldly" thing to do, and I have a severe problem with "worldly" things. I am a "brain in a jar". It took a long time for me to be able to post in forums, and I still have some trouble with it.

2. To understand the foundations of human psychology, it is best to realize that humans evolved to survive in the environment they evolved in; that would explain most of it right there, if you analyze what it would take for survival. The conflicts and disorders such a brain is vulnerable to seems quite obvious to me, and is somewhat understood by psychologists. However, mutations are a different thing. Psychologists have no understanding of that at all, and most of them seem to not even believe that such things are possible. They only understand emotional and pathological overlays on a normal ( i.e. unmutated) brain.
I understand human psychology, but I still cannot deal with it first hand. Just like I understand ecology, but I would not survive living in the wild.

3. You are very right about "emotional support over resolving the problem", especially about me. They have no idea how to support me emotionally, and I could be helped very much very easily if they would just do it.

 

[zylon]

This question plagues me too. I'm not NT, from what I can tell, but then my aspie-ness isn't 'normal' either. I don't think anyone is a 'normal' version of anything. I'm starting to see less and less of a benefit of being diagnosed either way. I mean, some of the most f*cked up people I know sit on both sides of the supposed spectrum. The divisive nature of the whole thing (spectrum vs NT) leaves me uneasy and with more questions than I had before.

NT and "spectrum" are not the only possibilities. If considered human, a chimpanzee would certainly not be NT, but would it be considered "on the spectrum"? State the ways you are not NT and see if the Aspies here think you are one of them.
As someone profoundly not NT, most people seem pretty much the same to me. I can see some variation, but not that much. Just as you may think that people are not all the same height, but to an ant, all people are the same height!

 

[Atay]

I can understand that. Albeit an Aspie, I have just enough NT in me to be able to see the nuance. I can imagine if I were further removed those elements would likely become harder to identify.

 

[Autism]

A couple of other things I readily connect with - I have a terrible working memory, but a fantastic grasp of concepts and complicated ideas. I instinctively approach my field in much the same way as Einstein did - "what must be?" as opposed to "what do I see?" It's been very successful. I can also see patterns easily where others cannot. However, my working memory is so bad that I have to constantly document every little tiny discovery. My email and calendar reminders are inundated with theories and discoveries. So annoying... Also, cuddling is very important to me. Being a non-verbal communication form, it's soothing. Also, it releases oxytocin, which is generally low in Aspies, and improves several of my faculties. This causes me to crave cuddling for the oxytocin release.

I am curious about your dopamine and adrenal pathways. I know I have very high dopamine normally, and am therefore highly reactive to my world. However, I just went through a physiological transition that temporarily caused me to have very low dopamine (I believe, based upon relevant research). It was fascinating. Days suddenly took much longer, I was suddenly not very reactive to my environment, and I became so "in the moment" that it became very hard to do anything or make plans. It was like a whole different set of symptoms and characteristics took over. Reacting to things felt much more difficult, and working was somewhat intolerable for awhile.

Do you have any idea what your brain chemistry looks like?

Interesting post: lived with a cold fish most of my life, so that means that there was not much oxytocin there, but yes I see patterns everywhere too. It is fascinating really.