Hiya, Callistemon from Australia

[Callistemon]

That was excellent advice.

Yeah, it was, @SimonSays, and I am thinking I need a decent approach for dealing with the meltdowns. I've already learnt tons of useful things from Aspie sites about dealing with the aftermath of a meltdown, such as: Don't try to reason with a person having a meltdown, it will only make it worse. Unless the situation is dangerous, give them space and allow them time to reset biochemically. Reconnect on other things when they've reset; don't immediately deconstruct the meltdown situation. Try to find ways to talk about it that don't send the person behind the barricades, when you've got enough trust back. All of that has been useful for the aftermath.

Prevention - well, one thing that would definitely reduce the overall pressure is for me to find people who get this stuff and talk to them on a regular basis - and it looks like this forum could actually be a really good place to do that. Since I live remote, it may have to be online - and while that's not face to face, it does concentrate people from all over the world in one accessible spot, that together have more collective experience in things like this than we'd be able to scrape together in our regional centre, I think. And it's people and interactions - which is what I don't get just reading Aspie advice pages online.

Speaking of - some of those seem to be run by people who've partnered Aspies, had it go wrong, and it's become a bit of a slugfest in the comments section. Sites by actual Aspies I found on the whole much more useful, balanced and able to give practical advice. I'm very favourably impressed here that there's already been a number of people talking to me in the first 24 hours who get this stuff - and who have perspectives I may not have considered. I was wondering if there was an interactive forum on these matters and looked at a few and thought this one looked the most promising of the contenders, when I signed up.

 

[Aspychata]

Welcome.

Guess you have to approach with all the great things you like about himand decide if you can slowly work towards change re: meltdowns. Have you asked him -is there something you can work on that he would like?

Think some people stop and forget we all have quirks and things to improve. Did he have these meltdowns when you met him and how did you deal with it then?

 

[Aspychata]

Yeah, it was, @SimonSays, and I am thinking I need a decent approach for dealing with the meltdowns. I've already learnt tons of useful things from Aspie sites about dealing with the aftermath of a meltdown, such as: Don't try to reason with a person having a meltdown, it will only make it worse. Unless the situation is dangerous, give them space and allow them time to reset biochemically. Reconnect on other things when they've reset; don't immediately deconstruct the meltdown situation. Try to find ways to talk about it that don't send the person behind the barricades, when you've got enough trust back. All of that has been useful for the aftermath.

Prevention - well, one thing that would definitely reduce the overall pressure is for me to find people who get this stuff and talk to them on a regular basis - and it looks like this forum could actually be a really good place to do that. Since I live remote, it may have to be online - and while that's not face to face, it does concentrate people from all over the world in one accessible spot, that together have more collective experience in things like this than we'd be able to scrape together in our regional centre, I think. And it's people and interactions - which is what I don't get just reading Aspie advice pages online.

Speaking of - some of those seem to be run by people who've partnered Aspies, had it go wrong, and it's become a bit of a slugfest in the comments section. Sites by actual Aspies I found on the whole much more useful, balanced and able to give practical advice. I'm very favourably impressed here that there's already been a number of people talking to me in the first 24 hours who get this stuff - and who have perspectives I may not have considered. I was wondering if there was an interactive forum on these matters and looked at a few and thought this one looked the most promising of the contenders, when I signed up.

Glad you are at this site, and we look forward seeing you progress in your relationship.

 

[Callistemon]

Understandable. For the longest time I would rather hold onto my anger, resentment, and bitterness, than deal with the sources of it because I was scared about what that would tell me about myself. It was hard for me to process the ways I sabotaged myself, and that was only evident from 20/20 hindsight after I managed to make positive changes in myself. Now, with therapy, and what I hope will be a short application of antidepressant, I view what happened to me as history that is useless to relitigate. I only need to look over at my loving spouse to understand the positive changes and experiences that I was fortunate to have.

Thank you very much for your thoughts, Gerald. I find it really helpful to hear from people who've been through that stuff. It reduces the anxiety about these situations, reminds me that we're all working on things and that what works for me doesn't work for everyone, gives me other perspectives, and in doing so, takes some of the emotional pressures off the relationship that may very well be a contributing factor to the occurrence of meltdowns.

My husband found a way to work with me through my complex PTSD processing, and did it so well, and was so generous and understanding about it, not to mention practical. It surely wasn't a picnic to be around me for half a year while all this garbage was coming out from behind the Great Wall of China - avalanches of it - truckloads of confronting childhood memories that I couldn't stop talking about, nightmares at night, daytime flashbacks, resultant total obsession with learning about the ins and outs of emotional trauma. So now I'd like to be able to find some way to work with the issues that are causing the meltdowns.

A lot of it is bottled-up anger - a generalised misanthropy about people behaving selfishly around pandemic issues, for example - people being rude to him in his work, the cumulative lack of civility of fellow citizens as we go through a day out. He's polite to a fault most of the time, considerate of others, happy to inconvenience himself for the safety and welfare of others. And it causes him despair and resentment when other people won't do the same.

 

[Callistemon]

Welcome.

Guess you have to approach with all the great things you like about him and decide if you can slowly work towards change re: meltdowns. Have you asked him -is there something you can work on that he would like?

Yeah, we're starting to talk about talking about that. Being able to bounce it around like this is actually decreasing the apprehension I've got about it, which will then translate into conversations with him so it can be calm and practical.

Think some people stop and forget we all have quirks and things to improve. Did he have these meltdowns when you met him and how did you deal with it then?

Re your first point: Absolutely. But try telling people that when your partner has a meltdown in public...and I do. People assume it's DV or coercion or someone totally bonkers and uncivilised, and you have to say to them, "No, this is a meltdown. This doesn't actually represent his character and he's not a domestic bully." And then you sound like the excusing wife of a DV case, which I'm not. But there's all that.

I have more detail re the meltdowns in the "Serious" section if you want to have a look - it details the kind of thing I'm dealing with, and when I first saw anything like that, and what was going on at the time.

Thanks for your post!

 

[Callistemon]

Hello, Thinx, good to meet you! Nearly missed this post as it came in a cluster!

As he doesn't want or feel able to do any investigating of himself, could you think instead about how you could handle things differently, in terms of keeping yourself feeling OK without him being able/willing to change?

Yes, that's one thing I'm definitely doing, and yesterday I thought, "I need to be able to talk to other people who get it, and aren't going to have prejudice regarding that stuff, about this when my anxiety ramps up, so that I'm supported socially in this, which reduces pressure on me and therefore also on him." That's why I signed up. That was one thing I could do, and the other is to find other strategies for communicating about it with him, etc.

Some people who have been made pretty insecure by their backgrounds hear criticism in even constructive feedback, but working on yourself and your own inner security as an adult can help you keep an even keel despite his reactions. Sounds like you have done lots of work on yourself already.

My own stuff is a work in progress, and when it intersects with his, will always give me more work to do on that stuff. But I'm miles from where I was 20 years ago. And I think the background insecurity is a definite issue for my husband. He wasn't really celebrated for who he was, growing up, and I think a lot of people here probably can relate to that. I can, for my own particular set of reasons, too.

I think he tries to block out his painful past experiences growing up - he doesn't want to remember them, it makes him miserable and he feels helpless. Merely to contemplate his past seems to make his self-esteem dive rapidly. (But of course, some of the meltdown triggers are intimately linked to those experiences.)

But he thrived, and I thrived, in our mutual relationship, because we are both to a great extent celebrated and loved for who we are, and because the things some people seem to think of as annoying quirks - such as preferring to write (me) or programme (him) recreationally instead of drink beer and watch the football or imbibe B-grade soap opera - we highly value in each other. (ETA - one of his recreational projects has been to create a faux-Latin-botanical-name generator that comes up with fake but realistic-sounding binomial names for imaginary plants - it's such a fun quirky project! )

We can talk to each other about pretty much anything that interests the other, and there's this nice Venn diagram of shared versus individual interests, where the shared stuff gives you common ground and the individual interests are a source of intrigue and learning about new things for each other, and appreciating perspectives we've not explored before. We're not carbon copies (...if two people were exactly alike, one of them would be redundant ) and the exchange we have, and have had for 15 years now, has led to enormous personal and intellectual growth, not to mention fun and adventures, for both of us, and to both of us making unprecedented progress on all sorts of personal goals.

But as you can see, we're not perfect - e.g. we have this real conundrum that we need to figure out around meltdowns. And there is no perfect, nor will there ever be - but there is ongoing personal evolution.

If he throws his head torch into the bushes, I guess it won't shine in your eyes any more.

ROFL

That was his reasoning at the time!

If he won't work on anything, I am not sure what anyone here can say to help, as successful measures with meltdowns or any such issue involve the adult concerned being on board. I guess you can choose not to mention your frustration, but that's something you would have to consider the pros and cons of.

Yeah, that's right, people need to take responsibility for their own stuff to be able to deal with it, and we can't do it for them. But I can meet him partway by learning to deal with those bits of my stuff that can exacerbate his stuff.

And while I clearly have to change the way I communicate about that, I can't entirely stop communicating about it. But...I actually think part of the frustration for him is that he can't see a solution for this, and perhaps is overly pessimistic about finding one. He's been trying willpower, I can see that - but that only keeps the lid on a bit longer, it doesn't stop it coming off.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

A lot of it is bottled-up anger - a generalised misanthropy about people behaving selfishly around pandemic issues, for example - people being rude to him in his work, the cumulative lack of civility of fellow citizens as we go through a day out. He's polite to a fault most of the time, considerate of others, happy to inconvenience himself for the safety and welfare of others. And it causes him despair and resentment when other people won't do the same.

I had always thought that my actions in public were deliberate choices and thought out (I was wrong about that) so i was like your husband, thinking that the actions of others were directed at me. Taking such so personally did not work out well for me and I am still learning that we are all imperfect beings. I have backed off from such self-centered thoughts and it is my spouse who taught me to embrace imperfection.

 

[Callistemon]

How did she do that, @Gerald Wilgus?

Thanks for your thoughts in that post, they're worth re-reading for me so they sink in. Because there's not just a lot of that in him, but a fair bit of that in me...

Isn't metacognition a fine thing. Without it, where would we be?

And just while I'm editing this message, I wanted to put a general thought out there. This kind of stuff can be hard work for people on the spectrum, and/or people with poor role modelling in early childhood, instead of being more innate. And it can seem like we have a lot of catching up to do compared to "normal" people, whatever they are.

But I do think that being forced to make such a process out of something like this and to think everything through from first principles also results in insight that "normal" people don't necessarily have (unless they make a special effort, and they may not be as driven to do that). It's often portrayed as "catch-up" but actually, I think it's important for society as a whole to stand back like that and look at these important things from all sorts of angles and examine critically, re-think and re-imagine, and I think it's the lack of it, and the taking things for granted and being satisfied with the easy explanations, that is a major factor for landing our society in the mess it is undeniably in.

 

[Callistemon]

Have you asked him -is there something you can work on that he would like?

I just re-quoted that because I thought that point bore repeating and I wanted to highlight it for myself. Because it's so logical when you think about it, but do we remember to do that when we're distressed or distracted?

I think that is such a crucial thing and I think that needs to become standard repertoire for me.

 

[Aspychata]

This just proves that relationships need calibrating and tuning. Sometimes even rebooting. It's an effort but worthwhile in long-term situations.

This shows our commitment to each other.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

How did she do that, @Gerald Wilgus?

Thanks for your thoughts in that post, they're worth re-reading for me so they sink in. Because there's not just a lot of that in him, but a fair bit of that in me...

Isn't metacognition a fine thing. Without it, where would we be?

And just while I'm editing this message, I wanted to put a general thought out there. This kind of stuff can be hard work for people on the spectrum, and/or people with poor role modelling in early childhood, instead of being more innate. And it can seem like we have a lot of catching up to do compared to "normal" people, whatever they are.

But I do think that being forced to make such a process out of something like this and to think everything through from first principles also results in insight that "normal" people don't necessarily have (unless they make a special effort, and they may not be as driven to do that). It's often portrayed as "catch-up" but actually, I think it's important for society as a whole to stand back like that and look at these important things from all sorts of angles and examine critically, re-think and re-imagine, and I think it's the lack of it, and the taking things for granted and being satisfied with the easy explanations, that is a major factor for landing our society in the mess it is undeniably in.

How did she do that? With a lot of patience. Having me realize that things are not about me as I didn't learn the first rule of holes . . . that when one is in a hole - - - stop digging. She is more socially savvy than I so I learned better ways of behaving from her and learned not to sweat the small stuff and stop being rigid. The real test was a decade ago when we had a house built on property we owned since 1985. If either of us could not deal with the imperfection that entailed we would have been in sad shape. I love my spouse so deeply that I have put in the effort to nuture our relationship, improving myself to be a good partner. And as with dealing with the PTSD from earlier memories of social/sexual isolation, I'm still not done.

You are right that our neurology and experiences forces us to catch up with things that aren't innate. For me this was socially. As a teen and young adult I did not understand social convention and ended up isolated and lonely. I figure that at age 25 I had the social and emotional maturity of a 15 year old. Plus, I was too passive and unable to advocate for myself. So, I started taking an interest in myself and began learning to be social, testing out relationships by starting to date (VERY HARD). But, three years later I was primed to recognize what I wanted when I met my spouse and by that time I was the type of person that she found attractive.

 

[Richelle-H]

Welcome to the Forum,

Your original posts resonated to some extent. The issue with the torch came across as the actions of one who did not have enough empathy with your problem. Simple things matter when a frame of reference is absent. He probably felt as if your words in the moment were a personal attack so his rational mind shut down and his inner child took over, thus the flashlight in the bushes, thereby removing the object of contention.

On the issue of shutting down any possibility of therapy, I have been there. I would posit that he cannot open up and thus every question or suggestion becomes an attack. I would guess that he was already withdrawn to some extent before any previous sessions, thus negating their worth and as a result reinforcing his idea that talking about it is worthless.

Try talking it through with him when he is not already in a defensive mode and make it clear that you want to understand what is going on with him. Communication is the key and that is not possible if either side shuts down because the conversation becomes too difficult. It may be like walking in a field of broken glass where every word has a chance to trigger a meltdown, but leaving things as they are is not healthy for either one of you.

Of course these are just idle thoughts from one who has weathered similar territory in my life. I am no expert except unto my own being. I wish you all the best.

 

[Aspychata]

Welcome to the Forum,

Your original posts resonated to some extent. The issue with the torch came across as the actions of one who did not have enough empathy with your problem. Simple things matter when a frame of reference is absent. He probably felt as if your words in the moment were a personal attack so his rational mind shut down and his inner child took over, thus the flashlight in the bushes, thereby removing the object of contention.

On the issue of shutting down any possibility of therapy, I have been there. I would posit that he cannot open up and thus every question or suggestion becomes an attack. I would guess that he was already withdrawn to some extent before any previous sessions, thus negating their worth and as a result reinforcing his idea that talking about it is worthless.

Try talking it through with him when he is not already in a defensive mode and make it clear that you want to understand what is going on with him. Communication is the key and that is not possible if either side shuts down because the conversation becomes too difficult. It may be like walking in a field of broken glass where every word has a chance to trigger a meltdown, but leaving things as they are is not healthy for either one of you.

Of course these are just idle thoughts from one who has weathered similar territory in my life. I am no expert except unto my own being. I wish you all the best.

I really like this advice. I felt this with someone close and l feel sometimes they take it personally and then l hate to say anything because it can be hard to draw us out of our shells. And l have responded the same way when he critiques me. My inner child just hits the meltdown button.

So now l simply like to add- we need to always come from a kindness and understanding. If either of us gets upset, let the anger diminish and then gently revisited said topic with a different approach.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Hi all. I'm here to learn a few things. While I don't fit cleanly into Aspie I am definitely not neurotypical and definitely share some characteristics with Aspies - like sensory hypersensitivities, ability to dive deeply into areas of interest (of which I have too many to apparently be an Aspie), frustration with people who don't follow rules that are made for the common good (but I also don't think unkind or unjust rules should be followed just because they are rules; for that there's civil disobedience etc).

I'm married to a non-neurotypical man who sits at least in borderline Aspie territory, i.e. a bit further over towards that than me. He's got the hypersensitivities, the obsessions, the difficulty socialising with neurotypical people, the tendency to get bogged down on the nitty-gritties when the big picture needs attention, for example. He finds neurotypical people boring and hates small talk, but they'd not necessarily know it - while he avoids socialising in his free time, especially with large groups, he's also very good at his face-to-face role in work and much appreciated for his bedside manner there (though he actually would prefer to change back out to a desk job where he doesn't have to deal with people and is looking at doing that, because it stresses the heck out of him to do the face-to-face).

I personally find it easy to connect with others (but didn't always, in part because I had to overcome my upbringing first) and he doesn't find me boring because we're both interested in a lot of things average people find a bit esoteric, like astrophysics, philosophy, fine arts. We both love reading all sorts of things and are voracious writers. He on the whole has excellent values and wouldn't sell you down the river like some people. A reputable online test says he's cusp Aspie but one of the problems with all of this is working these things out, and I thought I should hang around people who know more about these things to be educated by people who have real-life experience of these things.

I love my husband dearly and we generally have a happy relationship. I've come to this forum because I need better ways of solving conflicts with him, specifically around his meltdowns which he has around three times a year and which he didn't always have, but we've lived with for ten years now and we need help with. They and their tail are seriously distressing to me, and obviously it's not good for him either to get to the point of having a meltdown. No relationship no matter how many happy years you've had is invulnerable to ending when something like this isn't able to be dealt with. Anyway, I'm starting a separate thread on that if anyone would like to make some suggestions.

But I'm also happy to hear any thoughts anyone reading may have on any of this.

The above intro is summary and I'm happy to expand if there's any questions.

Understandable. For the longest time I would rather hold onto my anger, resentment, and bitterness, than deal with the sources of it because I was scared about what that would tell me about myself. It was hard for me to process the ways I sabotaged myself, and that was only evident from 20/20 hindsight after I managed to make positive changes in myself. Now, with therapy, and what I hope will be a short application of antidepressant, I view what happened to me as history that is useless to relitigate. I only need to look over at my loving spouse to understand the positive changes and experiences that I was fortunate to have.

what you wrote could be a good description of many of us on this forum including myself.

 

[Callistemon]

Hello Richelle, nice to meet you, and thanks a ton for your post!

Welcome to the Forum,

Your original posts resonated to some extent. The issue with the torch came across as the actions of one who did not have enough empathy with your problem. Simple things matter when a frame of reference is absent. He probably felt as if your words in the moment were a personal attack so his rational mind shut down and his inner child took over, thus the flashlight in the bushes, thereby removing the object of contention.

Thanks for this. Yeah, he definitely has a tendency to feel personally attacked by all sorts of things that aren't necessarily designed to do that. And I guess he was personally attacked a lot on all sorts of levels as a kid, and it's frustrating for me that I am apparently being conflated with the bullies in his childhood - but having said that, I think there's probably a lot of changes I can make in the way I communicate too, and talking about it with people here is already making me more aware of all these things, and keeping it in the forefront of my mind, and less likely to respond with unhelpful autopilot stuff.

On the issue of shutting down any possibility of therapy, I have been there. I would posit that he cannot open up and thus every question or suggestion becomes an attack. I would guess that he was already withdrawn to some extent before any previous sessions, thus negating their worth and as a result reinforcing his idea that talking about it is worthless.

I think you're right about that.

Try talking it through with him when he is not already in a defensive mode and make it clear that you want to understand what is going on with him. Communication is the key and that is not possible if either side shuts down because the conversation becomes too difficult. It may be like walking in a field of broken glass where every word has a chance to trigger a meltdown, but leaving things as they are is not healthy for either one of you.

That sounds like really good advice to me. I'm glad I came here. It is so much easier to remember all these important things and act on them when I can talk to other people about it. And to try to see things from the other side and a person's history, instead of just from the heat of the moment.

Of course these are just idle thoughts from one who has weathered similar territory in my life. I am no expert except unto my own being. I wish you all the best.

Thank you so much, again. It's really good to be able to talk to people who have experience with this kind of thing. Try bringing up the subject of meltdowns in particular with people who aren't familiar with Aspie type meltdowns. It's like putting a used cat litter tray into the middle of a coffee shop...shock, horror.

 

[Callistemon]

I really like this advice. I felt this with someone close and l feel sometimes they take it personally and then l hate to say anything because it can be hard to draw us out of our shells. And l have responded the same way when he critiques me. My inner child just hits the meltdown button.

So now l simply like to add- we need to always come from a kindness and understanding. If either of us gets upset, let the anger diminish and then gently revisited said topic with a different approach.

Thank you so much for your helpful post and for articulating for me what the situation looks/feels like from the perspective of a person having a meltdown. And I love what you said in your second paragraph and think I should put it up on a poster on the wall, or even better, engrave it on my heart. ♥

 

[Callistemon]

what you wrote could be a good description of many of us on this forum including myself.

It's good to talk to people who can relate to these things. I am no longer feeling alone with this stuff. Thank you. I also like that it seems to be possible to discuss this kind of stuff in this online community, without that becoming bigger than it needs to be, if you know what I mean...the idea that yes we all have problems to solve and that's normal, but that's also not all there is to life. This sense of perspective, and the sense that people aren't their problems, they are people.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Welcome to the forum, like likes like.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Hello Richelle, nice to meet you, and thanks a ton for your post!



Thanks for this. Yeah, he definitely has a tendency to feel personally attacked by all sorts of things that aren't necessarily designed to do that. And I guess he was personally attacked a lot on all sorts of levels as a kid, and it's frustrating for me that I am apparently being conflated with the bullies in his childhood - but having said that, I think there's probably a lot of changes I can make in the way I communicate too, and talking about it with people here is already making me more aware of all these things, and keeping it in the forefront of my mind, and less likely to respond with unhelpful autopilot stuff.




I think you're right about that.



That sounds like really good advice to me. I'm glad I came here. It is so much easier to remember all these important things and act on them when I can talk to other people about it. And to try to see things from the other side and a person's history, instead of just from the heat of the moment.



Thank you so much, again. It's really good to be able to talk to people who have experience with this kind of thing. Try bringing up the subject of meltdowns in particular with people who aren't familiar with Aspie type meltdowns. It's like putting a used cat litter tray into the middle of a coffee shop...shock, horror.

Is it possible that he has PTSD? When triggered, I did not melt down. Instead I was cruel to those around me, but, I could see why somebody would melt down.

I am nearing the end of my Cognitive Processing Therapy and learning the ways of rewriting my script using positive accomplishments to overcome my social deficits that I can remember. With that, I am learning an inner peace (or is it the THC gummy that I ate?)

 

[VictorR]

Welcome!