Breaking Rules You're Unaware Of

[MrsPB]

For years, I exhausted people with my neediness, needing to talk, needing company, just needing. I’ve learned that even well meaning friends can be overwhelmed and wrung out so to speak.
These days I have a tendency to withdraw before that happens. I don’t ask for help much. It’s lonely a lot of the time. I don’t reach out much any more and when people reach out to me I sometimes over love them lol

What do you mean, "over love?"
I hear what you mean about feeling lonely. I have these times when I can't even hold a conversation. It's too hard to mask sometimes, so I stay inside all day, all by myself.

Other times, all I can do is send a message to my friends&family. I try to keep it light and ask them about themselves. That seems easier than trying to talk and avoid my problems. I'm a terrible liar. Plus, I like listening to them. It helps with lonely feels, especially in video chat.

 

[MrsPB]

NT people are very sensitive about time and it will never change. They see your coming in late every day as an affront, a sort of thumbing your nose at their rules. They see your using the grace period as a defense as gaming the system. Time is a easy criteria to measure. You are on time or you are late. If you can come in consistently 5 minutes late you can come in on time or even better a few minutes early as a concientious worker does. Its pretty counterproductive to consistantly rack up bad points on so simple an issue to correct.

Hey, I just want to clarify that I don't consistently arrive late to work anymore, although I appreciate the advice.

 

[Mattymatt]

So guys,

I have this habit of pushing people to their limits without being aware of it.

For example, my managers are frustrated when I arrive 5 minutes late for work, but I don't see why. We have a 10-minute grace period to clock in. That's the rule.

Another: I tend to ask too much of my support system. I can never figure out when I've taken it too far, or asked for too much. I don't understand until they express resentment, and then it's usually too late to make things right.

Anyone else have the same issue? It's the hardest part of ASD for me.

I have a rule for myself. Early is on time, on time is late, and late is never acceptable. I take it as a point of personal pride to always be early when going to work because it has one major advantage: you can ease into the workday. If you believe you're asking too much of your support system and it is leading to resentment, have you tried a path of communication? You could tell the members of your support system that you have difficulty determining when you're asking too much. Simply ask them to tell you when it's becoming too much. You need feedback so you can learn.

 

[xyzzy]

It's pretty simple. Be on time. I know; it's easier said than done for me, too. So I always wear a watch, everywhere I go. Remember, it's not just NTs who are fussy about punctuality. ;o)

 

[MrsPB]

Hey guys, I appreciate the advice on time management and how to fix the problems I am aware of.

However, I'm talking about being unaware of the problem in the first place. The question I'm trying to ask is:

Does anyone else have this experience when, for some reason, you don't realize that you are creating a problem? Like you don't even suspect there's a problem until the other person makes it known? Like, you aren't picking up on a social "rule" that is obvious to most people.

And also,

Do you ever consider concrete rules above people's opinions, feelings, etc? It works the same way when I ask my trainees to do something such-and-such way, even though it's harder and inconvenient for them.

 

[SparklAng]

There are lots of invisible rules that I only know exist after I break them, and piss people off.

Like when people are having a conversation, and I join in. Apparantly, It was not my conversation to join. What, do I need a secret password or something?!

Or sometimes I watch other people joke around, so I use that joke later on. And people get angry, and say that what I said wasnt funny.

I feel like I constantly try to 'balance' my actions and act different when I am around different people, to keep myself in the safe area (that space where people can tolerate me if not think much good of me).

But that breaks a rule in itself. It is like dodging through a maze of lazers, exept the lazers are invisable until you put your foot in it!

 

[megacomic]

What you're describing is the Hidden Curriculum. You should read up on it.

 

[MrSpock]

...I'm talking about being unaware of the problem in the first place. The question I'm trying to ask is:

Does anyone else have this experience when, for some reason, you don't realize that you are creating a problem? Like you don't even suspect there's a problem until the other person makes it known? Like, you aren't picking up on a social "rule" that is obvious to most people.

This happens to me a fair bit. I am aware of this as you describe it because your description includes the NT telling me about it - I'm not at all sure how often I break rules and the NT doesn't inform me either because they don't intend to, or because they attempt to do so using hints that I miss. I see NT's break rules occasionally, this sort of thing isn't completely over my head, but it happens.

I suspect that this is mostly driven by a difference in how we reason emotionally (what offends or does not offend us, etc.) and how we interpret (or fail to interpret) non-verbal communication. I have trouble not upsetting women where there is a mutual sexual or romantic interest, but this is almost always because I don't understand what they're trying to tell me or because they imagine meaning in my statements and appearance that simply isn't intended. I find that it's in that sort of encounter that communication becomes the least verbal and most problematic. I suspect that's because this is where they can most easily be hurt. So ironic from my point of view, since I end up hurting them a lot exactly because they make communication so difficult, this is IMHO exactly where communication ought to be the clearest.

 

[Homebrand]

I have a problem with being too honest and blunt, sometimes I come off as being rude although Its far from my intention to offend anyone. I'm a lot better with it than I used to be though.

Also a 10-minute grace period means IF you are running late by accident that's okay but it's only acceptable on rare occasions when you can't avoid it. It doesn't mean you have an extra 10 minutes every single shift or without it being an accident i.e. getting caught in traffic.

I don't mean for that to sound rude at all, I just thought having a better explanation of what it means might help you understand the rule and why you boss is getting cranky

 

[Nero]

I have this issue all the time. I have this constant feeling like I ''missed'' the how-to-function-in-society class somewhere, and I am constantly lagging behind on the rules. As a result, I think I also ask for too much confirmation and ''am I doing this right" from people, and it annoys them because they think I am fishing for compliments.


What do you mean with

Do you ever consider concrete rules above people's opinions, feelings, etc?

I think I might have something similar, but I am not sure? To me rules are holy - not in the sense that they are perfect, but that without a clear, well-defined and unambiguous ruleset we cannot function. And if a rule is flawed, then we should work on adapting this rule, but until we do the rule is the rule, no 'buts'.

 

[MrSpock]

And if a rule is flawed, then we should work on adapting this rule, but until we do the rule is the rule, no 'buts'.

I wonder if you know what a thought experiment is. Thought experiment - Wikipedia

You do not seem to have thought this through to any great extent, however you state it as though it were a wonderful guiding principle we should all adopt. It is clearly a very poor way to see rules for life.

It is not hard to imagine that if you have several flawed rules, you will eventually be in a situation in which two or more of them are in conflict. It will be impossible to follow all of your rules, just as it is impossible to remain faithful to more than one boss at a time.

...without a clear, well-defined and unambiguous ruleset we cannot function.

We have no choice BUT to function "without a clear, well-defined and unambiguous ruleset". Having flawed rules within your set of rules makes them unclear and ambiguous, and life contains too many varied situations for every situation to fall into a prepared well-defined precise scenario where your rules apply exactly as envisioned. The bible is an attempt at such a set of rules - it is large and difficult to navigate, and there is much argument among those who claim to follow it regarding how it ought to be followed. It is possible that some of those people live ethical lives, however it is clearly not clear.

A set of 'rules' which we're willing to bend can be useful, but it is at best a poor substitute for good judgement while we go through the often slow and painful process of acquiring good judgement.

 

[Mr Alligator]

If I say meet 8ish, to me that means meet at 8pm.

I’ll probably be there 5-15 mins early!

Although sometimes I’m late, get wrapped up in something and loose track of the time!