Have to change churches after 5 loyal years.

[Tony Ramirez]

If you read my post history I been loyal to my local church for 5 years and although they did get me through rough times and some were good people for the worst part I found the experience the most stressful times and I am going to another church.

When I was lead to this church if you can even it call it that after a close call with my sister, I was greeted and thought it was good but it never felt like a church literally and I mean it. Let me explain. We don't even meet in a church, chapel, building or anything remotely except an elementary school (primary school for those UK folks) so when you walk in you don't see Scripture, Jesus pictures of this is the worst the actual place of worship and actual Christian cross. Just a cold auditorium with three rows were quite often you will miss someone because it's too spread out.

So I tried groups. Hated them all. Justin my former friend put me down where he can. Telling me I was obsessed and that I would never have a girlfriend when I would go to his Life group and it was all couples. Wanting to hang out with girls solo at that church was like pulling teeth and I now notice it was not me actually because I can see it in all the other single men there. Only the couples hang out mixed genders. The girls want to hang out together and brade each other's hair but never want to hang out with the guys. But if you are a single guys a married or single guy will bust your chops to hang with you till the end of time but to want to get a girl to hang just as simple "platonic" you have a better chance of winning the lottery than ever getting them to even getting a simple walk across the street with them.

So past that drama we did practically no church activities blaming excuses like people are traveling all year around like people are traveling for the summer which is true but not everyone at once to it's the fall they are traveling to it's Halloween family's are away trick and treating. Too it's thanksgiving and Christmas holiday. They did have a November big dinner but they no longer did the summer one in the park post pandemic. The pathetic hangs in the park were not even spiritual so not only did we not worship or fellowship basically it was just an exclusive clique club of the same regulars just chit chatting and kids playing. No new people. Just the same boring couples every month until I stopped going then they stopped doing it due to lack of interest.

December last year my lowest I randomly meet Madison at the coffee shop with my not so friend David who asks to find a church. I recommend this church to her about how I made great friends as she moved from San Diego not knowing anyone. Days later at a Christmas party I hear that she is coming to our church. I see Madison attending once at our service in December.Then after that I am so low then inspired by an Tiktok influencer in January I come back to the church stronger.

Things go good. I think my friendship with Justin is better. I join a Tuesday group only a few blocks from home. I am also part of a Thursday group for a couple of years I am close with. Things are good then they fall apart after I am baptized.

I get closer to Madison after she only one time shows up for prayer night at the church office. She supports me basically only my messages never once by a simple call. As I will also say single women at that church even if you get their digits which is a chore and a half they will never call you only text you. You'll be pulling teeth to the end of time they will only call other girls never call even if you're ready to jump off a bridge literally but other guys unless they are married simple as that. Men married or single will call you and also text you.

So then when Justin uninvited me to his retreat the only people that gave a damn to actually call and text meme again was Tim and Alice both married people. Otherwise crickets my so-called single women friends.

Now let's get to the present as this trauma dumping can go one another chapter. I was even more depressed because I was going to my Tuesday and Wednesday prayer groups they're basically ghost towns empty seats where only the host show up. Kicked out of Wednesday and Wednesday group thanks to a former friend cuz I was once again not deep enough and I was supposed to be part of a Thursday group and a so-called Tuesday group when no one shows up and a pathetic prayer group where it's all empty chairs and just two people leaders.

So home no I'm stressed at home my mother gets stressing on my whole family gets stressed at home I kiss you invites me to her Cafe that she owns stay there Friday and then she invited me to a game night that they have another church I end up going and I see how these women there and some men there that go to the church was so positive and happy compared to the church I go to now but they seem so miserable and not happy. So happy that singing they laugh at every little thing they actually talk to me and listen to me communicate and care about me and I just met them and even their happy they talk to this guy and they're inviting him to things and they just met him meanwhile they are close friends with a guy my age and they actually plan trips meanwhile I didn't even get a simple coffee hang you are so called female friends. Also they don't even know him meanwhile at my church you got to be able to be pulling teeth out with anyone. Basically we are there playing games so nearly 1:00 in the morning which is crazy compared to my church where we only play games with aesthetic one hour or so end up leaving at 9:00 pm.

My old church now whenever I try to even talk to people to hang out with that never mind men but even my so-called friend like Madison or anyone else they never have time to even talk to me they'll end up talking to someone other woman and have a 10 minute conversations but when it's my time to talk to them even if I say this is important Madison I need to talk to you feel say a few words I'll say I have to leave I have to leave I have to leave me while I'm sitting there saying this is very important then she'll end up walking away and talking to someone else with 10 minutes and that's the stupid sorry excuse me I don't go for it it's not just me everyone else saying they have to leave and I don't believe that no more.

So I actually check the Instagram page of the church and I see how happy and I see it's actually a church with a building and a cross and I just see how happy everyone is at that church and I say you know what I feel like I'm going to actually switch over this church and what's great about it is the service starts at 4:30 so I can actually go to both services but actually I think he's going to commit to this church and it just seems like a much more joyful place to go into this place I'm going to now. Ulta great about it many people from this Cafe if I go to also for the church it's only two blocks away and Patricia also works at the cafe and also worked with this other church too. So I can here at this new church and I could also see her at the cafe so it both works out both ways.

Anyway they have a Wednesday prayer service and a Sunday service in the in the afternoon I'm going to try the Wednesday prayer service this Wednesday I'm going to attend the Sunday service and I'm not going to go Sunday morning at my old church and I'm going to see how it is but the way it's looking I'm going to drop my old church like a hot potato for good.

 

[thejuice]

What have you got to lose? Go for it!

 

[Aspychata]

Hey, sounds like you assessed your current church, and they just aren't meeting your needs anymore. I would like to add, you have matured quite a lot, so perhaps you need people to see the new you. It might a good change.

 

[Judge]

Reminds me of work environments. Sometimes (whether it's in your control or not) changing to a new environment does have the possibility of being introduced to an entirely different set of personalities and all the social chemistry that goes with it.

In your case it may be worth it to make such a change.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

Sorry for the misspelling and grammar. I got so frustrated typing I started to use dictation because I got tired of typing and had to vocally let out the rage. I did trauma dump on my yoga teacher and my mother.

Yes, I am changing churches. I can't stand that place anymore. I knew it was wrong since December 2023 if you read my post history, but I thought it was because I wanted a girlfriend it was really because I once again did not have many real friends but this time it was only the couples that were my true friends. But I also did not have any church to try out. Also, the horrible place I have been going too is not a true community anymore and is turning into a ghost town.

 

[The Pandector]

Don’t know if it’s been used here lately, but the old saw makes sense. If you find the perfect church, don’t go to it because you’ll mess it up.

I’ve been reading a while now about your problems getting comfortable in a church. I feel for you; even as teaching elder, I was never really comfortable in a congregation. However, I was accepted at a few, and I’m pretty sure I know why.

Reading your history, @Tony Ramirez , I’m unclear what it is you are hoping to add to the group. As a member of the body of Christ, you have a function as part of the whole. Of course, you can’t expect others to find your place for you because they’re kinda swamped trying to fill their own roles.

IDK, maybe you have a sparkling personality and can survive on your charm and good looks. Me, I don’t have any of that stuff, so I had to ‘earn my place’ so to speak. Which shouldn’t make you feel put upon, since the Bible is really clear that this is God’s plan for the church and each person in it.

For me, things get much easier when I know what is expected of me, especially when it’s what I expect of myself. So much easier, as I go to meeting knowing I need to talk to Harriet about X and follow up with Frank. Then I’d do my main job and then try to be open to questions or concerns. I didn’t have time to stress about all the social falderal, because I had a job to do. People didn’t approach me because I’m particularly enjoyable, but because I was a functional part of what was going on. That paved the way for people to understand that the weird guy was weird, but could be nice to have around.

Contrast that picture with the picture of a person who walks in to see if this church might meet his needs. You might find yourself integrating more naturally if you walked in asking what you can do to meet someone else’s needs.

If you want to make a shocking and positive impression, go immediately to your new pastor and tell him you’re looking to find the right position to minister to others. Follow through on that, and you will be happier for it.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

If this fails I am going into new age or I am just going to comit suicide.

 

[The Pandector]

If this fails I am going into new age or I am just going to comit suicide.

If your commitment to a particular congregation fails, you will quit being a Christian? I want to see you succeed, @Tony Ramirez . Your commitment to Christ will always suffer if you hinge it upon how well you like other people or how well they like you. You aren’t likely to love your church if that depends on them providing a wife or a circle of loving friends. Go: make a positive contribution and see what happens.

 

[Aspychata]

Trufully, some places will have a better fit than others. It's nobodies fault. Maybe going to a new church is a good thing. Don't feel guilty. Maybe the other place wasn't ready to accept the new you.

 

[jsilver256]

Tony, I say this only because I want to help you.

I've seen you post a while now, and from my perspective, it seems that you flip rapidly between deciding someone / something is good for you and someone / something is awful for you.

I understand Tony as an awfully lonely person who is trying his best to find companionship. But I don't know if I understand Tony outside of that - his interests, his ambitions, his actual relationship with Jesus Christ.

It seems to me that you are measuring worth of others, and even your own religious beliefs, based on what value these have in filling the very real loneliness in your life, and this seems to fluctuate rapidly.

For myself, Galatians 2:20 captures my journey as a Christian:

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

I no longer exist as I was before I converted to Christ. Daily, I die a little bit more. And it is a good thing, because the past myself was prideful, arrogant, judgmental, and utterly without love. Did I find happiness? No. And I don't think I will find true happiness until after I am done with this life. But I am no longer tormented chasing shadows of falliable humans.

Now, if the church wasn't providing what you needed, by all means switch. But consider what it is that you are truly seeking.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

You don't realize how horrible that place is. We don't even remotely meet in a place of worship but in a public school so it never feels like a church, and that goes for whatever religion you are.

Here is their YouTube channel to give you an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/@TrinityGraceChurch

Then here is the church I am changing to channel.

Watch | Hope Community NYC

Watch or listen to our latest messages from Pastor Gregg and our Elders.

www.hopecommunitynyc.com

 

[The Pandector]

You don't realize how horrible that place is. We don't even remotely meet in a place of worship but in a public school so it never feels like a church, and that goes for whatever religion you are.

Here is their YouTube channel to give you an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/@TrinityGraceChurch

Then here is the church I am changing to channel.

Watch | Hope Community NYC

Watch or listen to our latest messages from Pastor Gregg and our Elders.

www.hopecommunitynyc.com

If you have decided that a congregation is so “horrible” because of the building they meet in, then consider the Catholic Church; they have some really, like outrageously medieval castle-type structures that’ll knock your socks off.

If you have other spiritual interests besides architecture, maybe talk to a pastor about those things. Maybe some of those things will in some way coincide with what that pastor thinks church is about. Also, while you’re talking to him, make sure he understands that your primary interest is available females.

Then, Tony, listen very carefully to how that pastor responds to you. Rather than wasting another heartbreaking five years, you might find out on the spot whether that congregation is a good candidate for your home church.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

You just don't get it. None of you do, and I give up wasting my time and energy explaining it. I went back to church for God. The loneliness came later because of the horrible environment. The way most single women treated men at this horrible church I was in pretending to be our friend, but when we needed them they would practically ignore us. Never once wanted to just hang with us as friends without and agenda. How only most couples and other single men treated us single men with respect, except Justin. Do you all get it through your thick skulls finally?

 

[jsilver256]

You just don't get it. None of you do, and I give up wasting my time and energy explaining it. I went back to church for God. The loneliness came later because of the horrible environment. The way most single women treated men at this horrible church I was in pretending to be our friend, but when we needed them they would practically ignore us. Never once wanted to just hang with us as friends without and agenda. How only most couples and other single men treated us single men with respect, except Justin. Do you all get it through your thick skulls finally?

Yes, and I would agree that the church is not fulfilling your spiritual needs and you probably should switch churches.

But, if you already had an "us" in the form of male companionship, why specifically seek out single women? That's where I am getting lost.

Did one of the elders or deacons give you feedback recently which triggered all this?

 

[honeytoast]

Tony, I say this only because I want to help you.

I've seen you post a while now, and from my perspective, it seems that you flip rapidly between deciding someone / something is good for you and someone / something is awful for you.

I understand Tony as an awfully lonely person who is trying his best to find companionship. But I don't know if I understand Tony outside of that - his interests, his ambitions, his actual relationship with Jesus Christ.

It seems to me that you are measuring worth of others, and even your own religious beliefs, based on what value these have in filling the very real loneliness in your life, and this seems to fluctuate rapidly.

For myself, Galatians 2:20 captures my journey as a Christian:


I no longer exist as I was before I converted to Christ. Daily, I die a little bit more. And it is a good thing, because the past myself was prideful, arrogant, judgmental, and utterly without love. Did I find happiness? No. And I don't think I will find true happiness until after I am done with this life. But I am no longer tormented chasing shadows of falliable humans.

Now, if the church wasn't providing what you needed, by all means switch. But consider what it is that you are truly seeking.

Seconding this. ^

Lurking your posts, you flip and flop your opinion of people that you are acquainted with. You go from praising a person to highly disliking them, then back to liking them. You are also considering something rather serious because something didn't work out. Why do you need to seek out the company of single women for friendship if you have male friendships? Unless you wanna get a girlfriend, I'm missing something out here.

If you aren't happy with your current church change it, as others have mentioned.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

As I said for the million time it does not feel like a church. Just walk in there and you will know so never mind who I decided to hang out with.

 

[honeytoast]

As I said for the million time it does not feel like a church. Just walk in there and you will know so never mind who I decided to hang out with.

I don't think anyone is going to be going there, so don't worry about that.

Second, if the "church/not church" is not making you happy, then just stop going? Not sure what else to tell you.

 

[jsilver256]

Tony, take an intellectual step back - I could easily tell you, yes, it is awful that your current church does not look like a "real" church, go to your new church. That would make me more likable to you.

But I do like you, and it is because I like you that I am saying this stuff, stuff that might make me less likable, but stuff I think you need. Does that make sense? I hope you can believe that.

As I said for the million time it does not feel like a church. Just walk in there and you will know so never mind who I decided to hang out with.

Forget about building + company, and go back to what you originally said.

You said that you sought out a church to seek God. I'll offer my own interpretation on this.

You might have heard from the sermons the concept of "idolatry." In the Old Testament, idols were objects of silver and gold and wood that were worshipped. The New Testament expands this:

Colossians 3:5-10:

Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

So, the New Testament definition of an "idol" is a relic of one's past self which keeps one from fully embracing their new self.

I have had many, many idols. Getting them ripped out of me hurts. Hurts big time. Maybe even like you are hurting right now.

But keeping idols around hurt more in the long run. Always. It's burdensome to carry around loneliness. It's burdensome to place our trust in other humans and be betrayed over and over.

God does not promise to take away your hurt. But God promises that if you surrender your hurt to him, it will strengthen you.

Romans 5:3-5:

Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

I am sorry you are hurting. I am thinking of you and praying for you tonight. And I hope you will consider praying to God as well.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

I went to the new church. I was welcomed the second I walked into the church. Right away I talked to the pastor and broke bread with him and other believers who were so positive. They already know my name. One said you are part of our family now. We went upstairs and had a positive discussion. He even came back when I thought I lost my umbrella. I will be attending Sunday service and dropping all groups who are ghost towns anyway at my old horrible church.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

I am now in a much better church I mean it. They literally accepted me the minute I walked into the door. I was a nervous wreck to even enter thinking it was locked until the pastor daughter said come in. Right away I was greeted by someone I know then I talked to the pastor who gave me a tour.

I was introduced to some people than sat and sat next to him and others some I knew already fellowship like they knew me for years.

When we went upstairs to discuss they listened to me and learned my name. This girl who arrived who was at game night I just knew I related to her somehow as she was the most easiest to talk to. She laughed all the time and knew hard facts about anime and other topics autistic people like here know. Same kind of weird obscure facts that I would know in detail. Also the way to talks with a slight lisp and monotone voice. I only ruled her out at first because she was independent moving away from home driving, and employed but they could have been me if I got the proper care instead of these quack doctors putting me on bipolar medication for half of my life.

The real red flag was when I sat next to her and she kept randomly laughing the same exact way I do but in private which means she felt so comfortable there that she did not have to mask to anyone. I know this is going to be the right place for me.