United Airline "incidents" raise questions about the safety of autistic and disabled persons

[Aspiegirl75]

How did I become the bad guy here just for posting a video explaining why airlines overbook their manifests?

You most definitely are not. Your role as the voice of reason is being challenged by those of us who have trouble understanding why on earth things always have to be about the bottom line. I for one appreciate the information you and @Judge offer. It helps me understand the situation a little better, and I realize that both of you still are of the opinion that what happened to that passenger was not right.

 

[Katleya]

Having worked for a few years checking in passengers (not with United), I honestly don't understand how the situation even reached the plane.
That flight did not suddenly become overbooked 20 minutes before departure. Most likely, it was overbooked when check-in was open. Agents are told about which flight is overbooked, and required to look for volunteers to depart on a later flight, just before check-in opens for said flight. They failed to find volunteers, but in that case, the last 4 passengers in other US-based airlines would "simply" be denied check-in (and they would be given money, possibly a hotel room depending on the time of their new flight, a meal, plus said new flight). So that's failure number 1. Next comes boarding. There was still a chance to keep some people from getting on the plane, again, offering them money and accomodation. Yet, they chose not to do that either, or failed. So even though the security agents were not United staff, clearly UA had more than one opportunity to fix their overbooking situation in a peaceful, respectful manner, and the fact that they did not cannot be excused.

What worries me is that airlines have very strict procedures, which I found reassuring when I worked that field, but that these procedures are increasingly not followed properly, leading to serious incidents.
I do hope the removed passenger sues, and I don't see how he could not win that case.

As for us when travelling... I don't know what to think. I've been requesting wheelchair assistance in the last few trips, but mostly due to physical difficulties. Theoretically, being identified as a disabled passenger on regular airlines (i.e. not low-cost such as ryan air, easy jet or spirit, which tend to skip some of the rules) grants one more protection, but it comes at the price of travelling in one of the airport's wheelchair for insurance reasons. I have found it helped me with the commotion that comes with clearing security, the stress of being surrounded by so many people, but I can't deny that I don't feel quite as free when I'm being escorted. As for informing an airline of a cognitive disability... well, most airline agents aren't exactly the best and brightest, you can trust me on that. And they're still very judgy, so admitting to a cognitive disability will come with a lot of stigma, and possibly not-so-great treatment.
I used to be the agent who volunteered to assist them, and got the reputation of being so brave I wasn't scared of schizophrenic passengers (honestly... those to be feared were the entitled businessmen, not the mentally ill). I've tried educating my colleagues, but I don't think I was very successful.

 

[Nitro]

I have a question that maybe someone can answer.
If the gentleman required three officers to physically remove him from the aircraft,how on earth was he able to walk right back onboard after he got away from the security that removed him and get past the people tending the gate?

I would hate to think that airport security was so lax that a person could just wander about when they put you under a microscope before you can depart.

 

[Grandmother B]

Some of you may have heard about the man who was dragged, unconscious and bleeding off a United Airlines plane by security. He had done nothing wrong; the only thing that happened was that United Airlines decided to force some passengers off, due to a combination of overbooking and their own employees needing to travel, and he said he could not give up his seat. Several details have left me wondering whether he could be on the autistic spectrum. For example, his sharp scream when security touched him, (before they actually injured him) could indicate a sensory sensitivity, or an aversion to touch. Perhaps his insistence itself on getting back on time, would a neurotypical have complied?

A google search reveals the 2015 story of how a woman and her daughter...her daughter who was quiet and causing no problems, were kicked off a United Airlines flight after the mother let slip that her daughter was autistic. The surrounding passengers all agreed that the girl was not being disruptive.

And then there's TSA. And the story of the partially blind, partially deaf, and partially paralyzed girl with a brain tumor which left her easily confused, who was slammed to the ground, left bleeding and covered with bruises, when she instinctively flinched away from the hands of armed security after her shirt set off the metal detector.

I don't really know what to say about all of these. It seems, airlines operate according to rules which work well most of the time, for "normal" people, at least. But we're seeing what happens when there's the slightest bit of non-compliance, such as may happen when someone has sensory difficulties, or aversion to touch, or confusion at following exact instructions, or whatever it may be.

I believe this was a one-time freak thing by people who were not really employees of United, but Chicago Dept. of Aviation security officers. It was an awful scenario. But I don't think you have to worry excessively. I don't know where your source was about the woman and her autistic daughter, but I would think that it might not be entirely accurate. (not what you said, but the source). With all the uproar I don't think this will happen again. They are already putting new rules in place. I hope they have learned their lesson!

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Having worked for a few years checking in passengers (not with United), I honestly don't understand how the situation even reached the plane.
That flight did not suddenly become overbooked 20 minutes before departure. Most likely, it was overbooked when check-in was open. Agents are told about which flight is overbooked, and required to look for volunteers to depart on a later flight, just before check-in opens for said flight. They failed to find volunteers, but in that case, the last 4 passengers in other US-based airlines would "simply" be denied check-in (and they would be given money, possibly a hotel room depending on the time of their new flight, a meal, plus said new flight). So that's failure number 1. Next comes boarding. There was still a chance to keep some people from getting on the plane, again, offering them money and accomodation. Yet, they chose not to do that either, or failed. So even though the security agents were not United staff, clearly UA had more than one opportunity to fix their overbooking situation in a peaceful, respectful manner, and the fact that they did not cannot be excused.

What worries me is that airlines have very strict procedures, which I found reassuring when I worked that field, but that these procedures are increasingly not followed properly, leading to serious incidents.
I do hope the removed passenger sues, and I don't see how he could not win that case.

As for us when travelling... I don't know what to think. I've been requesting wheelchair assistance in the last few trips, but mostly due to physical difficulties. Theoretically, being identified as a disabled passenger on regular airlines (i.e. not low-cost such as ryan air, easy jet or spirit, which tend to skip some of the rules) grants one more protection, but it comes at the price of travelling in one of the airport's wheelchair for insurance reasons. I have found it helped me with the commotion that comes with clearing security, the stress of being surrounded by so many people, but I can't deny that I don't feel quite as free when I'm being escorted. As for informing an airline of a cognitive disability... well, most airline agents aren't exactly the best and brightest, you can trust me on that. And they're still very judgy, so admitting to a cognitive disability will come with a lot of stigma, and possibly not-so-great treatment.
I used to be the agent who volunteered to assist them, and got the reputation of being so brave I wasn't scared of schizophrenic passengers (honestly... those to be feared were the entitled businessmen, not the mentally ill). I've tried educating my colleagues, but I don't think I was very successful.

Often when flying on internal flights, this happens :-

We are all ready to fly and there is an announcement 'If there's anybody not intending to fly this is your last chance to get off'

Often then, someone then leaves the plane.

Why does this happen?


also, I read that the 'overbooking' was that United Airlines staff could connect to another United flight.
So is this still classed as 'overbooked?'
Not in the normal sense that there are too many passengers with tickets, I would posit.

(I would like to submit my sentence ending 'I would posit' to the annual most poncey sentence competition)

 

[EllieMay]

But we're seeing what happens when there's the slightest bit of non-compliance, such as may happen when someone has sensory difficulties, or aversion to touch, or confusion at following exact instructions, or whatever it may be.

Which is EXACTLY why I don't fly anymore --- ever --- period. My family thinks it's stupid and selfish of me because I can't go to some family functions anymore, but I just don't want TSA touching me. I asked about the Pre-Check Known Traveler Number (KTN) and even called to talk to TSA. I was told that if you are "randomly" selected for screening they will do whatever they want to and nothing matters --- they can get away with anything. I can't see taking a chance of getting in trouble for resisting TSA just to go to a family reunion.

Quote an article: "But did you know about flying with a panty liner?
Evelyn Harris, a 65-year-old retiree who lives in Crofton, Md., was flying to San Diego earlier this year when she went through an experience that a court might consider a sexual assault.
Intimate apparel has been a source of concern ever since Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tried to bring down a plane on Christmas Day in 2009 by detonating a bomb hidden in his underwear.
The investigator told Harris, she said, that 'his own wife carried a panty liner with her and put it on after security, as this is something that could trigger a search.'
Indeed, turns out any feminine hygiene product could be grounds for a search, according to the TSA."
TSA gives ‘invasive’ airport pat-down to woman wearing panty liner | Toronto Star