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The Women who don't know they're autistic.

Mia

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
This article was co-written by Adeline Lacroix, who works with Fabienne Cazalis and was recently diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. A second year master’s student in psychology, she is working on a scientific literature review about the characteristics of high-functioning autistic women.

Let’s call her Sophie. The description we’ll give could be that of any woman who is on the autistic spectrum without knowing it. Because they’re intelligent and used to compensating for communication impediments they may not be consciously aware of, these women slip through the cracks of our still-too-inefficient diagnostic procedures.

Studies reveal one woman for every nine men is diagnosed with so-called “high-functioning” autism, that is, autism without intellectual disability. If we compare this to the one woman for every four men diagnosed with the more readily identified “low-functioning” autism, we can easily imagine many autistic women are left undiagnosed.

Today, Sophie, who lives in France, has a job interview. If you could see her nervously twisting her hair, you might think she’s anxious, like anyone would be in the circumstances. You would be wrong. Sophie is actually on the verge of a panic attack. At 27, she just lost her job as a salesperson due to repeated cash-register mistakes – and it’s the eighth time in the last three years. She loved maths at university and is deeply ashamed. She hopes the person hiring will not bring up the subject – she has no justification for her professional failures and knows that she is incapable of making one up.

Learning accounting by herself at home
Sophie’s wish is granted: the interviewer asks her instead about her time at university. Relieved, she happily launches into an explanation of her masters thesis on meteorological modelling, but he cuts her off abruptly, clearly irritated. He wants to know why she is applying for a temporary job as an accounting assistant when she has no experience or training. Although her heart is racing wildly, Sophie manages to keep her composure, explaining that she taught herself accounting at home in the evenings. She describes the excellent MOOC (online course) she found on the website of the French Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers, and tells him how one of the questions she asked the teacher on the forum led to a fascinating debate on the concept of depreciation expenses.

Sophie is not good at guessing what people are thinking, but she understands from the way the man is staring at her that he believes she is lying. Overwhelmed, she feels weaker by the minute. She watches his lips move but does not understand what he’s saying. Ten minutes later she’s in the street, with no memory of how the interview ended. She is shaking and holding back tears. She curses herself, wondering how anyone could be so stupid and pathetic.

She climbs into a crowded bus, swaying under the heavy odours of perfumes worn by those pressed up around her. When the bus brakes suddenly, she loses her balance and bumps into a fellow passenger. She apologizes profusely and hurriedly gets off. In her rush, she trips again and falls to the pavement. “I must get up, everyone is looking,” she thinks, but her body refuses to obey. She can no longer see properly and doesn’t even realize her own tears are blinding her. Someone calls an ambulance. Sophie wakes up in a psychiatric facility. She will be misdiagnosed with a psychological disorder and given medication that will solve none her problems.

A unique way of thinking, a taste for solitude, intense passions
Sophie’s story is typical of the chaotic lives led by women whose autism remains undiagnosed because they are on that part of the spectrum where the signs are less obvious. In spite of her impressive cognitive capacities – like the ability to teach herself a totally new field of knowledge – Sophie has no idea of her own talents, and neither do those around her, or only rarely. Trapped in a social environment highly critical of what makes her unique, such as her unusual way of thinking, taste for solitude, and the intensity of her passions, Sophie is acutely aware that these are seen as shortcomings.

If Sophie could be given the correct diagnosis of high-functioning autism, she would at last understand the way her mind works. She could meet other autistic adults and learn from their experience to help her overcome her own difficulties.

Autism is characterized by social and communicative difficulties, specific interests that people with autism are capable of speaking about for hours (like meteorological modelling, in Sophie’s case), and stereotyped behaviours. There are also differences in perception, such as hypersensitivity to smells or sounds, or, conversely, reduced sensitivity to pain. Autism is thought to affect around one in one hundred people.

70% of people with autism have either normal or superior intelligence. This form of autism is generally referred to as high-functioning autism, as per the latest version of the “bible” of psychiatric disorders, the DSM 5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). In this version, all reference to older categories has been removed, including Asperger syndrome. The term Asperger’s is still used today in some countries, however, even though all types of autism are now grouped under a single spectrum and classified according to the severity of symptoms.

Appropriate support throughout schooling
Ideally, Sophie would have been diagnosed as a child. She could have benefited from specialised support throughout her schooling, as is legally required in France and other countries. This support would have made her less vulnerable, giving her the tools to defend herself from bullying in the schoolyard and helping her learn with teaching methods adapted to her way of thinking. Upon leaving school, her diagnosis would have opened up access to labour rights, such as disabled worker status, which would have helped her find an adapted employment. Sophie’s life would have been simpler and she would be more at peace with herself.

But Sophie’s problems are twofold. Not only is she autistic, but she’s also a woman. If getting a diagnosis is already tricky for men, it’s even more difficult for women. Originally, autism was thought to only rarely affect women. This erroneous idea, which emerged from a 1943 study conducted by Léo Kanner (the first psychiatrist to describe the syndrome), has been reinforced by the long-dominant psychoanalytical approach. The criteria defining autistic symptoms were based on observations in boys.

Later, when science replaced psychoanalysis as the dominant model, studies were largely conducted on male children, thus reducing the chances of recognising autism as it’s manifested in females. This phenomenon, also present in other areas of science and medicine, has far-reaching implications today.

Rest of the article here:
The women who don’t know they’re autistic
 
I just have to wonder if its even about the diagnosis sometimes. To toss a person into a mental facility and drug them seems like an excuse to not have to deal with this human being who is struggling. Sure if she was totally psychotic, I can see getting her settled down, but even then... Where is the real caring to help her.

Im a guy, I was sort of forced into being diagnosed, but never sent to a mental facility. However, I feared answering some of the questions I was asked. Some of them angered me deeply, but for once in my life I stayed calm. I knew I was in a position where this "expert" could literally take my life away.

They sometimes think we are stupid (or that was what I sensed), I was treated like I was stupid at least at first. They had me take some tests and fill out some questionnaires... I was no longer treated in any way like I was stupid... because now it was evident by their own testing that I was far from it.

I didn't say that to brag... I say that because what if I had a low IQ, hell what if I was just average? What if I wasn't able to (at least on paper) solve some of those very complicated problems? Where might I be right now? They would have had a legal right to put me away, if they had of so chosen.

This type of stuff worries me about those like us, who are coming after us. We aren't Lepers. We aren't even crazy. Many of us are very intelligent. If given the chance, we can think circles around these clowns, (these "experts") interviewing us. I only acknowledge a person as an expert if they have walked in my shoes, otherwise its just a f___ g opinion. I get pissed over this stuff... sorry.

So what is the beef that people have with us (Female or Male)? Why are we such an issue? Why are we such a big talking point? Can they not handle us melting down, shutting down, or being quiet? Is it such an issue that we are different? I have even read stories where teenagers in school shootings were "suspected" of being on the spectrum... Is this full blown speculation or fact? It's admitted speculation but a jab at people like us. I have to wonder if its an agenda for actions to come? I do worry about this stuff.

Are we so scary? Or is it that our intelligence scares them, our ability to see through scares them?

So.. If I'm not some drama filled rich kid, partying, snorting cocaine, and blowing through my trust fund, and cheating on college exams... I guess I am not not "normal." I guess if I'm not some thank God its Friday nine to fiver who cant pay his bills, and goes to the bar before he goes home to slap the old lady around... I'm not normal.

Yes, my irrational comment is irrational, but no different than what I keep running into in the news, and stuff just like I read here, about this poor lady who needed help, not drugs and a room with no options...

Why is there this awareness in me? Why do I even give a crap? Maybe I am crazy...
 
Are we so scary? Or is it that our intelligence scares them, our ability to see through scares them?

Think that you nailed it with that line, our intelligence scares people, our meltdowns and behavior do as well. The authorities don't understand how to deal with us. They use the same frightening methods on all people, intelligent or in-between or not. Because they don't understand the behavior or difficulties we experience daily. There seems to be no middle ground for us, of understanding.

I think that what you say makes logical sense, it seems right to me Chance. Because we question all the time, and think, we don't 'fit in' in the same way as others do. Although we can if we want to, we just don't want to most of the time. If you fit in, you don't stand out in any way, and people won't notice if you're in any way different. If you're not a sheep, then you're dangerous.
 
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I live in France and today, I am going to a walk in clinic for psychiatriy and let's just say, that nerves are already attacking me and trying very hard to not go into imagination of the ideal situation, because it never works out for me. I would take some natural anti anxiety tablets, but my senses tell me that it is best for the person to see me "raw".

I can say, that I am very similar to "Sophie", but for the mathmatics. I can talk for hours on any subject that is a passion with me. Sometimes I feel really disarmed when someone is looking at me, but shows no emotions. I sense that I am going on and on now; before I was not aware.

I have made a decision that I am only going to be hopefully formally diagnosed with social anxiety. I have a letter from my dr for that and so, I will do all I can, to put aspergers to the back of my mind. Also, no doubt it will be done in French, which I can speak a little of and understand. Very scary.
 
I just have to wonder if its even about the diagnosis sometimes. To toss a person into a mental facility and drug them seems like an excuse to not have to deal with this human being who is struggling. Sure if she was totally psychotic, I can see getting her settled down, but even then... Where is the real caring to help her.

Im a guy, I was sort of forced into being diagnosed, but never sent to a mental facility. However, I feared answering some of the questions I was asked. Some of them angered me deeply, but for once in my life I stayed calm. I knew I was in a position where this "expert" could literally take my life away.

They sometimes think we are stupid (or that was what I sensed), I was treated like I was stupid at least at first. They had me take some tests and fill out some questionnaires... I was no longer treated in any way like I was stupid... because now it was evident by their own testing that I was far from it.

I didn't say that to brag... I say that because what if I had a low IQ, hell what if I was just average? What if I wasn't able to (at least on paper) solve some of those very complicated problems? Where might I be right now? They would have had a legal right to put me away, if they had of so chosen.

This type of stuff worries me about those like us, who are coming after us. We aren't Lepers. We aren't even crazy. Many of us are very intelligent. If given the chance, we can think circles around these clowns, (these "experts") interviewing us. I only acknowledge a person as an expert if they have walked in my shoes, otherwise its just a f___ g opinion. I get pissed over this stuff... sorry.

So what is the beef that people have with us (Female or Male)? Why are we such an issue? Why are we such a big talking point? Can they not handle us melting down, shutting down, or being quiet? Is it such an issue that we are different? I have even read stories where teenagers in school shootings were "suspected" of being on the spectrum... Is this full blown speculation or fact? It's admitted speculation but a jab at people like us. I have to wonder if its an agenda for actions to come? I do worry about this stuff.

Are we so scary? Or is it that our intelligence scares them, our ability to see through scares them?

So.. If I'm not some drama filled rich kid, partying, snorting cocaine, and blowing through my trust fund, and cheating on college exams... I guess I am not not "normal." I guess if I'm not some thank God its Friday nine to fiver who cant pay his bills, and goes to the bar before he goes home to slap the old lady around... I'm not normal.

Yes, my irrational comment is irrational, but no different than what I keep running into in the news, and stuff just like I read here, about this poor lady who needed help, not drugs and a room with no options...

Why is there this awareness in me? Why do I even give a crap? Maybe I am crazy...

Always the fear if i start talking about any 'problems' im putting myself in front of an authority who will have the right to section me.
Prescribe me drugs label me 'non compliant' then section me so a tick can be put in the box,case solved on to the next.
The fear walks the line between rational/irrational and certainly prevents me from getting 'help' as the potential downside is too great.

Fortunately i dont need 'help' (yet) but am able to live a certain way which makes it easier.

Chance, i imagine the autism diagnosis thing will end up like Prescribin ritalin for hyperactive children in america.
Doesnt necessarily solve anything for the childre, but theyre quiet.

Also thinking of imvasion of the body snatchers. You have to act like them or theyll come for you... :)

(50s B movie reference probably too obscure these days!)
 
Thanks for posting that up Mia. There's voluntary research participation for somebody s Doctorate Suzanne? (Being in France and all?) If you can manage to read through the article you'll see it highlighted as a link. that research may provide clearer answers than your Psychiatrist today? Good Luck by the way.

I'M struggling to get my head around Sophie's story. She has a Master's and therefore the capacity and ability to teach herself accounting and yet the interviewer thought she was lying??
It's not on, it really isn't. I'm fuming !!
 
Always the fear if i start talking about any 'problems' im putting myself in front of an authority who will have the right to section me.
Prescribe me drugs label me 'non compliant' then section me so a tick can be put in the box,case solved on to the next.

I fear the same thing. I am actually an expert in psychology due to having no choice, but be my own for many years and worse still, because I am not caught up in "red tape" and having a doctorate in this field, I am better than the very ones I am going to see and so, petrified that I will start talking over them and even have a meltdown, because of their stupidity.

As for medicine: I will accept what ever they give me, but doesn't matter, because I will throw the prescription away and if they want an update, I will give the impression of nothing working.

I do have difficulty with not telling the truth. If someone asks me a direct question, I have the urge to tell the truth, but I am also good at lying ( due to childhood issues) and with my superb memory, I am able to retain the lies and never trip up! I know I sound arrogant and even scary, because really, what is truth with me lol but I prefer to tell the truth, accept when I know it is going to go against me, as in this situation.
 
Thanks for posting that up Mia. There's voluntary research participation for somebody s Doctorate Suzanne? (Being in France and all?) If you can manage to read through the article you'll see it highlighted as a link. that research may provide clearer answers than your Psychiatrist today? Good Luck by the way.

I'M struggling to get my head around Sophie's story. She has a Master's and therefore the capacity and ability to teach herself accounting and yet the interviewer thought she was lying??
It's not on, it really isn't. I'm fuming !!

I am a self taught account too. And what has gone along with this, is actually being very good with how to run a business. I could not run one, though, because I hate taking money off people, but easy advise others on how to go about gaining a successful business and this is from someone who has to use a calculator to add up lol Maths and me are enemies.
 
I'M struggling to get my head around Sophie's story. She has a Master's and therefore the capacity and ability to teach herself accounting and yet the interviewer thought she was lying??
It's not on, it really isn't. I'm fuming !!

It's happened to many women, that's why I felt such sympathy for Sophie. The ability to teach yourself something is not beyond autistic capabilities. In fact I've continually found it much easier to learn in my own way, at my own pace. Outside of a structured environment and the traditional manner of teaching. Have taught myself many things.
 
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It's happened to me personally, that's why I felt such sympathy for Sophie. I taught myself in the middle nineties how to put personal computers together from parts, to set up and configure software for small businesses. At an interview for a job, I was laughed out of the room by four people. It made me doubt my abilities for a time.

If you don't mind me asking Mia, what sort of things did you do for yourself while doubting your abilities?
did you continue regardless? Believing in yourself and your capabilities? Or follow another direction/interest?
 
If you don't mind me asking Mia, what sort of things did you do for yourself while doubting your abilities?
did you continue regardless? Believing in yourself and your capabilities? Or follow another direction/interest?

The side job of setting up computers for local businesses went on.
Eventually I went back to school, and got a master's. After that I opened a shared graphics studio with several other artists. Created and sold art after that. The computer business eventually fizzled out, at least for me.
 
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This sounds fun. Do you still run this and do art? I used to love art at college in the studios.

No, not anymore. It was essentially a collective of different sorts of artists. Graphics, fine art, industrial design, packaging design, cartooning, anything that would sell and help keep the studio and group together.

Most were students who graduated or didn't. I bid on art contracts and kept the books, and did some of the art. I was the person who went to businesses and showed the portfolios on a regular basis. Left the tearsheets and waited for the call, negotiated the contract.

Eventually left the business in younger less capable hands, and as it was a collective, many people came and went. As far as I know, it still exists.

Did you also do this kind of thing Kirsty? Understand that you are an artist yourself.
 
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Did you also do this kind of thing Kirsty? Understand that you are an artist yourself.
No, but college really fulfilled my passion. I studied fine art. After college, I went to meet one well-known artist and other artists that knew him. We explored the city, visited local exhibitions and spoke to a few students showcasing their final projects for their Master's. I lost touch with people for a while then decided to sign up to some more art classes to keep myself going. I have been creating art ever since during my spare time and now have some recognition locally which is a great first step to exhibit and sell my work. I can inbox you my art blog/website if you like.
 
I think Ladies are better at hiding their autism and surviving in the job market the guys.
It seems unlikely to me their are that few autistic Ladies out there....unless their brains are harder to mess up on the blood flow plumbing in the womb?
It could be both I suppose...I like autistic ladies so I would rather it was more as I still am wife hunting.
But it is maybe not a good thing to wish on anyone... I don't know?....I can not see my self being a NT...it would not be me.
 
As for medicine: I will accept what ever they give me, but doesn't matter, because I will throw the prescription away and if they want an update, I will give the impression of nothing working.
Just out of curiosity, why would you do that? Wouldn't it be easier to say you don't want to take medication? This way all these meds will be recorded in your medical files as not working for you. If the time might come where you actually need medication, they might run out of options because the records states nothing works. That's just my two cents though, no offense meant :)
 

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