The viability of supporting autism

[King_Oni]

Reading articles about how people on the spectrum are being handled wrong, as well as difficulties for employment and whatever we have going on in the predominantly NT world I was wondering something. I mean, I just read an article how law enforcement doesn't really know how to handle autism, as it seems. And it's not an isolated incident as far as I remember, thus that means law enforcement as a whole would need training, how possible or impossible it might seem.

I remember that a while ago there was a thread asking what would help us on the spectrum most to integrate into society as a whole. But I want to look at it from a different angle now.

Is it even realistic to accomodate us? Not just in terms of practicality, but economically. Granted, I don't have numbers or anything, but we can ask for a lot in the current society in terms of support, but nowadays everything comes with a price. Most people can't afford it themselves, so it would rest in hands of the government. When governments are closer to economic crisis, like we have now, they will cut expenses, and any autism programs might be one of them.

And while I don't want to be all gloom and doom and sound outright depressing, I doubt that financially it's all possible and viable, especially since ASD in general is such a case-by-case issue, it's hard to find a standard method that works for all, unlike plenty of mental illnesses that can be somewhat coached and supported by medication and therapy (and I don't even want to start the argument on the expenses on healthcare for individuals or; if they can't afford it any government).

So discuss; do you think support would actually be viable in the world as it is? Yes, we can all dream that the world will change and suddenly have a new perspective on autism, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon (otherwise it would've happened I suppose). Or did some of us just draw the shortest straw?

 

[Ylva]

Holland has villages for old people. Can't we have villages for autistics too?

I'm reminded of the hypothetical story about two deserted islands on one of which were stranded a group of NTs, on the other a group of aspies. In a few years the only island that had made any progress was Aspie Island. We could do something like that? Although, then we'd have to have a security system that kept allistics from taking advantage, stealing from us and whatnot, since we wouldn't be separated by a stretch of water.

 

[Vanilla]

I feel that a community, of Aspies, might be able to help one another, if we were willing to work with one another. It would require much collaboration, and for everyone to do their part, in contributing in a positive manner, but it could help, should it be successful.

 

[King_Oni]

Yeah, we have one of those facilities here. However, it's not free. And that's kinda what I'm getting at. Maybe a remote "village" for people on the spectrum wouldn't be that weird, but funding has to come somewhere. Looking at the fees for that retirement village

Netherlands Retirement Village

Those are fees many of us won't be able to afford. At the moment I'm already seeing cracks in the socialist system where the government pays for the elderly who don't have a proper retirement fund saved up. I even remember my grandfather being in a care home a block away from where I live. His "rent" was about twice what a normal appartment would cost and care wasn't even included, besides being "safe" and having emergency buttons and cords in the appartment he lived in so staff could check up quickly.

Perhaps I should've been clearer in my OP in that the notion of even things like special education are becoming too expensive to maintain for governments. Over here they're already closing down special education in favor of the idea that "disabled people should fit in regular schools, so they learn to interact with non-disabled people better". The issue however, and that's an oversight; special ed teachers end up without jobs and regular teacher have no skills to deal with, for example, autistic kids. I'm curious to see how that'll pan out here. But that's very much a result of the government noticing that it's becoming too expensive. Similarly, the government here closed sheltered workshops in favor of having people with disabilities do "regular" jobs. The idea, on paper looks good, practice might be a different thing, companies might not be interested in having "slow" workers that potentially lose them money (and of course, that's a really, really rough generalisation).

I'm also not talking about The Netherlands in specific, but more on a global scale. I know some countries have better services set up than others, but I doubt expenses are way, way less in some countries and it would turn into a matter of priorities.

As for aspie village (to call it that); perhaps it would be too much like a commune of sorts and that ultimately depends on how a government perceives such "settlements" (aside from the fact if there's room for these things). I believe plenty of countries actually want disabled people to integrate into society as a whole, rather than have them seperate themselves. But I guess that's the result of not having proper support in place and people looking for other ways to live their lives.

 

[Ylva]

Then we must educate each other on standing up for ourselves, dealing with sensory overload, things like that.

Aging therapy would be a far more creative endeavour than finding the mythical autism "cure".

Any such society, loose or tight, with or without allistics living there, ought to be based on Fuller's Law that since one person can invent something that can benefit ten thousand, one shouldn't have to "earn" a living. It shouldn't be work or die.

The ones inventing stuff should of course receive even more education on standing up for oneself.

 

[Suzanne]

Good points you raise and realistically it is not going to happen, UNLESS someone in the government is PERSONALLY touched by autism. I know in England for example, that this happens quite a lot, and am pretty sure, this would be the same, all over the globe.

We humans, whether we are aspies or nts, tend to react better when we come in direct contact with an issue.

 

[HappyHermit]

Hmm... the idea of people on the autism spectrum being too expensive presupposes that we can't be as productive, economically, as allistic people. I'm not sure that's inherently true at all.

Since there aren't as few of us as was formerly thought and since NTs, too, can suffer under current social norms, depending on their personality type (as an obvious example, just think of extreme introverts in a society that promotes and worships extraversion), perhaps it should rather be rethought how we live and work.

Perhaps it's a society and workplace that's based on the ideal way of being of only about half or two thirds of the entire population that's (economically) unproductive, not the people in it.

I'd be interested in what it would really cost if we didn't 'other' people who don't fit the mould. What if Special Ed wasn't special but just ed, one of several different strands of education models? To turn this around, how much energy and therefore economic value (if one wants to see it that way) do we lose because we mainstream anyone whom it doesn't drive to suicide? I speak from experience when I say that just coping isn't being effective and by extension economically productive. Or, how much value would we gain if e.g. we didn't bother with (and spend on) workplace activities that centre on being social and conformist, that don't produce economic value from NTs and endlessly drain autistics?

There was a far-reaching education reform in my country of residence about 15 years ago that resulted in greater specialisation for students at secondary school according to talent, interest and inclination. Not the same thing, but for the purpose of a superficial explanation think of college majors in the US - you have an array of classes from different fields, but your main focus is on a specific subject, except that in the case of secondary school the focus isn't on a subject but a subject area, such as STEM, art/music, liberal arts, etc. - you get the idea. While support for this reform wasn't monolithic, what the reform cost didn't feature large in the discussion. But to me it seems that allowing people to sort themselves into different educational branches according to talent, interest and inclination isn't a far cry from allowing them to sort themselves into different educational branches according to neurology, learning style and personality type. Why, precisely, should one be a great success and the other just too expensive unless the former is societally considered valid and the latter is not? And that brings us back to ideology, not inherent ability and by extension, potential for economic productivity.

In essence, the mainstream needs to be seen for what it is, and that is an amalgamation of prevalent ideologies, and not a way of living that evolved out of what actually works best.

 

[Nitro]

It sounds wonderful until you think about how much room a custom built utopia would occupy to support our numbers. The present number show about 1 in 68 in the population having ASD. There are probably more of us out there that haven't been identified yet.
It would require an entire infrastructure to to pull it off,along with a financial system that was internal. Would you trust your present primarily NT based government to keep it in check,or succeed from it to form your own autie government? How do you work your way around co-morbid days? Time off from work while some were suffering from depression or other issues would be counter-productive and probably drag the community down as a whole.
Consider history and a gentleman who proposed a master race in recent history and it might ring a bell to what the rest of the world might think about "Aspergia" Are you going to be prepared to go to war if necessary to keep it the way you want it,or will worldwide conflict be something that doesn't apply here?

 

[Ylva]

Godwin's Law still being active doesn't mean that a community of people the NT world explicitly doesn't want in its midst will suddenly be assumed to be superior or want to fight a freaking war to take control over the world. Geez.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Honestly? No, it's not realistic. You cannot fit the bill and make adjustments for every last little oddity out there. Some people will slip through the cracks, there is not way to patch it all. But I think we can patch a lot of them. I feel most of it boils down to common courtesy on the behalf of the regular people, learning to work with your limits on behalf of the different people, and both needing to work harder at co-existing. Everything has a balance and trade off. I am good at organizing, I'm punctual, I'm a good researcher, I can even be really charming, but in return you need to mind my sensory issues by not touching me, not being ridiculously loud, and don't expect me to do chemical cleaning. My coworkers excel in the social aspects (most of them, anyway) and they are better cleaners because they don't get sick from the fumes, but at past jobs they've tended to sit around and complain, call in sick when they weren't sick, and generally never be at work. Together, we make a well-rounded work place. The work is done and the customers are happy. If you can time it right, the allistic people can take a lazy day, and then the autistic can take a comorbid day. However harsh it is, sometimes you just have to push through your issues and do it anyway, and try to ignore cases like how one dude dropped a table on his toe and gets full disability but that guy over there with severe back pain and rods and pins all in his body can't get any sort of help.

I don't think employers should be required to fit the bill for earplugs or whatever that we may need, but there should be affordable options compliant with workplace standards. Allowing an mp3 player to play music quietly would be a good middle-ground and not much different than people who play radios at work, while doing without or keeping it up so high you're jamming more than working are both bad ways to go about it. And dress code should be much more relaxed, I find that most ridiculous. Try explaining "looking good" to a blind person or an autistic with touch issues. You can be presentable without using starch.

I'm a huge advocate for alternative schooling. I think that's one place that needs drastic reform. Let people choose between public, private, home, and other methods of schooling based on their needs, and don't villainize anybody for what method they need. Yes, set a standard score that must be met in math, science, history, language, etc., but let them get their at their own pace in a way that works best for their learning style. Some people do well with that Common Core, some do better with the traditional methods. What's more important is that they can add and subtract accurately after they get done.

 

[The Penguin]

This is why I choose to be self employed. I know not everyone can handle this but this is the only option works for me to be successful in life.

 

[Slithytoves]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect dedicated government support for people with ASDs beyond the basic social welfare programs available to all who are unable to support themselves. As has been mentioned, budgets are strained and social welfare programs are often first on the chopping block when cuts need to be made. What little may be here for us today could well be gone tomorrow.

In America, AARP, a massive and well-funded national organization for senior citizens with significant lobbying power, is constantly engaged in expensive battles to prevent cuts to programs for seniors. Everybody, if lucky, is going to get old, so if any special interest group would be guaranteed support, it would be the aging. If their agenda is at risk, we can hardly expect smaller, more specific populations like people with ASDs to find security via government. Not to mention that higher-profile organizations that do have the ear of some legislators, such as Autism Speaks, are not actually speaking very well at all for a significant percentage of the overall ASD population.

The fact is, a significant number of people with ASDs are un- or underemployed, not open about their disorders or active in the spectrum community, and/or unable to access diagnosis to be counted in our numbers. We are an underfunded, under-organized, and poorly defined group. This means we have to be realistic, and get creative.

A couple of posts here mention the notion of an Aspie village. Fact is, we already have one right here at AC, and it doesn't cost us a dime. Communities like ours should be looking at ways to network and collaborate, and to identify and pool our strengths to do group advocacy and start online businesses together. We should be looking at ways to help each other, combining resources for microlending and other mutual aid. When we discuss problems here, we should to do more than vent; we should be looking for actual solutions and committing as a team to making them happen. We're on our own, folks. But we have each other. Instead of looking without for answers, I propose we look within our own circle.

If we think Aspie Land would be so great, why don't we make it happen virtually? We're a smart damn group of people. Why we don't organize is beyond me.

 

[The Penguin]

Then we must educate each other on standing up for ourselves, dealing with sensory overload, things like that.

Yes this is very important. For living on my own since age 17, I have to figure out many things on my own. I didn't have family to help me out most of the time. I have wrote many posts about my life I had to do to stand up for myself. There will be many people let you down, but you need to keep moving forward until you find that ideal person that willing to help.

 

[Nitro]

I am sure there are many here that have their struggles and are here for support and education. I came here for the education and got comfortable here with the variety of interests and humans to observe. Sometimes we are wrong or don't all agree. It is a part of human function and nothing more.

Debates should be educational,not confrontational

I never complain about my ASD. To me it is a gift. I don't personally struggle with my ride on the autism spectrum anymore and taught myself over time how to overcome obstacles and thrive in the world by using the good parts of my ride to better myself. I feel I have done a lot that helped the world by sharing my gifts.

I would not want any outside influences if we got segregated. We would need our own piece of ground. If we are government subsidized,they still have control and the only way to get out from under it would be to leave.
It sounds a lot like apartheid with class separation by neuro differences instead of race if we play the card and give in to a government.

The last time I checked,there weren't any countries up for sale,but you can take one if you want their space. That might start a war that pisses the rest of the globe off

 

[The Penguin]

I don't think employers should be required to fit the bill for earplugs or whatever that we may need,

Honestly I think they should be required to. I have worked in many factories and all business provide earplugs. It the cost of doing business. I notice in many settings employees don't care about hearing protection. When I ask for it, employees give me a hard time. I will write something I find is a fair argument. A person working for a company with nuclear waste. Your dam right that company better provide protection before the person does his/her job.

 

[Jaywalker]

I think many are overestimating the special accomadations necessary for the majority of aspies to be productive economic agents. In most cases, the benefit of our gifts far exceed the cost of our quirks.

What is needed is an economic society that uses productivity, as opposed to social political skill, as the primary metric for worker value. That requires educating society, helping them understand that AS is more like LGBT than cancer. It is something to be better understood and accepted inclusively, not something to be cured.

More generally, introverts are significantly undervalued in most Western societies.

Aspies need not be a financial drain on society in order to be adequately accomadated. Our value needs to simply be recognized and our substantial stengths exploited for the benefit of all.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Honestly I think they should be required to. I have worked in many factories and all business provide earplugs. It the cost of doing business. I notice in many settings employees don't care about hearing protection. When I ask for it, employees give me a hard time. I will write something I find is a fair argument. A person working for a company with nuclear waste. Your dam right that company better provide protection before the person does his/her job.

For hazardous jobs, yes! Especially anything heavy machinery, whether you're planing logs in a factory or hacking them down in the woods. Fire suits for molten metal workers and fire fighters, and all other kinds of appropriate safety gear for hazardous jobs. I meant more for us pencil jockeys at our desk jobs, we probably should be the ones to invest in our mp3 players and ear plugs for noise control. If for no other reason, so we can buy ear buds that fit properly and pick our own music.

That requires educating society, helping them understand that AS is more like LGBT than cancer.

Especially since half of us probably walk the agender/transgender line anyway and make up the latter portion of LGBTQIA.

 

[The Penguin]

I meant more for us pencil jockeys at our desk jobs, we probably should be the ones to invest in our mp3 players and ear plugs for noise control. If for no other reason, so we can buy ear buds that fit properly and pick our own music.

That example does make sense. I soon need to invest noise canceling headphones. I hate how loud people are in the office I'm in.

 

[Progster]

I understand that there is a limit to what I can reasonably ask a school or company to do to accommodate me, and that for certain issues I will need to find my own coping mechanisms to deal with them. For example, if my colleages like to listen to a radio while working and are more productive while listening, then I can hardly expect them to turn off the radio just for me. However, there are some reasonable accommodations which I can expect: that they don't stop and chat next to my desk, for example, or as a teacher, I can be given a classroom facing the central courtyard and not the busy street, or the playground where kids are shouting. For me the issue is that my issues and requests are often not taken seriously, and are dismissed as my being paranoid /overreacting / exaggerating / fussy or whatever name they wish to find for it. Not only that, but I'm also criticised when I find coping mechanisms to deal with my difficulties. In the radio example above, a reasonable way round the problem would be to wear earplugs. But if I do this around people, again they will criticise or possibly stop me from wearing them. I continually read threads of this nature, where intitutions have not been accepting of a coping mechanism depite the knowledge of the person's ASD. A teenager who needs to take a plushie to school to help her get through the day, but the school won't allow it. A child who can't bear tight clothes round her neck, but the school makes her zip up. Another child who hates to be in the cold and on the noisy playground and wants to stay inside where it's warm and quiet, but the school makes her go outside.

It's a very, very sad world where not only are our ASD traits and sensitivities misunderstood, dismissed and not accepted, but also the very coping mechanisms which help us get by in the world.

 

[AsheSkyler]

That example does make sense. I soon need to invest noise canceling headphones. I hate how loud people are in the office I'm in.

I had to buy longjohns and thermal underwears so I could stand to open the window when one of the coworkers fumigates the place with Lysol and other things.