One thing that really burns me up.

[Alex Dame]

There's something that's been on my mind for some time now, but I didn't know exactly how to talk about it. I've been trying to think of how I can express my frustration without offending anyone on a subject that is "touchy" to say the least. Even after days of thinking and carefully wording, I can't guarantee that someone reading this won't be offended. However, that isn't my intent, and I apologize if I offend anyone in this writing. Also, I'm not expecting to take this issue personally, at least not as personally as I do. Probably, if I wasn't an "aspie" this wouldn't really matter to me, and I'd be less anxious and happier in general.

Anyway, the issue in this thread can be summed up in just two words: "White Man". Is it right that I had to hear and to read that title over and over- That I had to PAY to hear and read that title over and over- Just for the sake of getting some credits in humanities at college? Is it right that, after growing up in the eighties and 90's, and being saturated with the idea of equality from school, friends, family, the church, and the cartoons I watched and being dragged to museum exhibits, after all those years of being told that we're all the same, I have to hear the phrase "too white" on television, as if being Caucasian was some sort of a disease? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not a racist. I just don't want everything to be my fault, and I don't want to be attacked either. The truth is, in a perfect world, nobody would have to be ashamed of the way they were born, but thanks to busybodies like the teacher of my humanities class, there are times when I do, in fact, feel ashamed to be a white man, or feel threatened, or just feel the need to defend myself and the race and gender that I identify with the most. One of the things that bugs me is just how one-sided racial prejudice is. It seems like anyone can say whatever he/she wants to about white people, and nobody will expect them to be offended, but just say a six letter word beginning with n, and rhyming with Tigger, and the fur starts to fly.

That said, I can only really speak from my own experiences, and my own frustrating situations. One of my most sorely irritating experiences, at least that I can remember, is when I took that humanities course, or, to be more accurate, the Native American Literature course headed by Professor Terzakis. Now, I needed a humanities course in order to get my degree, and I pretty much knew what to expect: The heroic story of how I was able to survive in a white man's world. How white men enslaved me AND my family. How they denied me my rights, killed my family, how white men are terrible and untrustworthy, and how they'll never get any better, and how my group of people are better. This was exactly the kind of bitter resentment I could expect from an African American History class, an Asian History class, or a Spanish or Mexican History course.

I figured that I'd be safe from that kind of generalization by taking a class about Native American Literature. Based on what I read in the course description, I thought it would be talking about mythology like Raven and the beginning of humanity, or the story of Old Man Pochiku, the potato man. Instead, it was an even more painful experience than the time I went to the hospital after being hit by a car while riding my bike. I'd rather have gone to the DENTIST twice a week for sixteen weeks. I'd rather be seeing a dentist like that motorcycle-riding sadist from Little Shop of Horrors!

For starters, I don't read much, and I don't really like reading books, and in that class, I had to read more than five of them AND remember enough to write about and discuss with the class. That wasn't ALL I had to read. The teacher sent home many independent things like a copy of the Canadian Red Papers. Week after week, month after month, it was pot shot after pot shot against the global white man. William Shakespeare (Arguably one of the greatest writers that ever lived), Jules Verne (Who envisioned space travel over a hundred years before it became a reality), and H.G. Welles (Author of The Invisible Man, The Time Machine, and War of the Worlds) are referred to as "D.W.E.M.S" (Dead white European Males). Yeah, The White House is a big, white, fancy residence, but it's not referred to as a B.W.F.R. Significance!!

Disney's Pocahontas was badmouthed at least twice, and in one instance, referred to by Driskell as "America's wet dream". Thomas King badmouthed Christianity, and John Trudell said that celebrating Columbus Day was like celebrating Osama Bin Ladin Day- On national television for crying out loud! The books we were made to read included Thomas King's The Truth About Stories, Sherman Alexis' The Absolutely True History Of A Part-Time Indian (which contained bitterness, complaints, and more than a few dirty swear words), Driskell's Walking With Ghosts, and a few other books of our choice for a bibliography. One of the books I chose was Sherman Alexis' "The Strongest Indian In The World", and I had to take a day off of work to read it.

(Sigh) All of that is only part of what made that class suck out loud. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if only I'd been able to complain to someone. The lengths to which people persist that it's NOT offensive, however, are incredible. For one thing, Professor Terzakis is white, and as far as I'm concerned, a traitor to her own nationality and an insufferable busybody. Everyone else I tried to talk to had the same three responses: #1: We stole their land. #2: Has anyone said anything offensive against you personally?, and #3: I know how you feel.

In the first place, WE didn't steal THEIR land! Some very specific white people did some unforgivable things to some very specific aboriginal people. This happened centuries before I was born, and I'm sure standards and perceptions were decidedly different back then. In the second place, does it really matter if anyone actually pointed at me and said: "You suck because you're a white man!"? People get offended by lesser things all the time. Take Charlie from the old Mr. Magoo cartoons. Do you know how many people complained about that character? Same with Goofy in "Californy or bust". Not only that, but some of the people complaining about the politically incorrect cartoons are often white people themselves.

Then, there's "I know how you feel". Has anyone else ever gotten ticked off from hearing their parent say that to them? I'm an aspie and mom isn't, to say nothing of our being different genders. We literally have brains that think differently from each other. Also, in cases like this, "I know how you feel" means "You're overreacting", "this is no big deal". Hmph. I'll tell YOU what's no big deal, Mom: Struggling to survive in a white man's world! We all do it! I mean, sure, you may have had more on your plate than I have, but does that give you the right to humiliate me? And I know that the class experience may have been intended at least to be similar to what a Native American or other minority experienced in school growing up, but what the Hell kind of logic is that?! Any GOOD parent will tell you that two wrongs don't make a right.

As for struggling to survive and suffering, well, just because I didn't grow up in some trailer park with an abusive father, and be denied education doesn't mean I haven't suffered. It doesn't mean I wasn't always in the "special" group at school with all the "special" kids. It doesn't mean my dad didn't die when I was ten. It doesn't mean I didn't get squished to the ground with my arms tied behind my back by someone over twice my size. It doesn't mean that I didn't go through thirteen years of school, learning pointless information and hurling it back at the people who already knew it just to be a slave to some butter-butt that only ever got angry at me in spite of having mostly incompetent, lazy employees! Suffering just happens to be a part of life.

(Sigh) This thread has already gone on a lot longer and covered more intense emotions and feelings than I ever wanted it to, but I feel like it's necessary to get something like this out in the open if there's anyone out there who truly wants to be friends with me. I'm not racist, it's just that hearing "white man" kind of lumps me into the category, and I tend to feel like I'm getting attacked because of it. Of course, I know the truth: I didn't steal anyone's land, I didn't kill anyone, or rape their wives, or murder their children, or ruin their landscape, and I didn't ASK to be white. I was BORN here, and someday I'm going to die here, and any radicals who don't like that can just suck it up. White men HAVE done unspeakable things, but they've also discovered electricity and atomic energy, invented to internal combustion engine and the video camera, and worked to abolish slavery. There's really no reason I should feel ashamed to be a white man.

Anyway, as I conclude this thread, I'd like to speak of July Fourth, Independence Day. It'd be easy, and perhaps not inaccurate, to say that America was made by white people viciously enslaving the natives and taking away their property, but for the colonists who wrote the declaration of independence, America has a different foundry. It was created by the rebellious inability to tolerate unjust law and oppression, which, at the time, was seen as being initiated by the English. I DO wish I didn't take anti-white prejudice personally, but since I do, I'm not taking it lying down from ANY bully, even if that bully is a teacher, and even if there's really nothing I can do about it. At the time, as much as I despised the class, I did my best in it, and ended up with a B final grade. I wanted to end on a happy note then, but this thread contains my true feelings.

 

[Slithytoves]

Hi, Alex.

That was quite an essay! My response won't be terribly long, but I do have a couple of things to say.

First, there's nothing wrong with being a White male. It's very true, though, that for a long time, history was written and taught from only one perspective; that of the dominant, White male majority. There was a great deal of omission and glossing over going on, and it's only recently that other voices have entered the conversation, to present other sides to the story and to confront and rectify all of the whitewashing that has occurred. It's true that some of those voices are angry, resentful, even bitter. It's understandable, given the genuine oppression White men have visited on many, many groups over time. But you're right, it can get wearisome and/or go too far, and it isn't fair to generalize and lump every White male into one pile as if you are personally responsible for what members of your demographic have done without your individual approval or participation.

I don't see that as what's actually happening to you, though. Keep in mind than in a history class, groups are in fact referred to generally. Just because a teacher makes generalizations, it doesn't imply that blame is being laid on you, here, today.

I hope you are sensitive enough to the hazard of confirmation bias that you can see not everybody has a bone to pick with you for being a White guy. Most people judge others as individuals on a case-by-case basis. The impressions you make in terms of your own views and beliefs are going to be what's important to the people you meet. If you do make the mistake of only seeing resentment all around you, you will become defensive, possibly hateful, and your concerns about being the object of blame will become self-fulfilling prophecy. And really, at that point you would have earned it.

So try to keep this sort of thing in perspective, realizing that it isn't really about you.

 

[tachyon]

Hi, Alex.

That was quite an essay! My response won't be terribly long, but I do have a couple of things to say.

First, there's nothing wrong with being a White male. It's very true, though, that for a long time, history was written and taught from only one perspective; that of the dominant, White male majority. There was a great deal of omission and glossing over going on, and it's only recently that other voices have entered the conversation, to present other sides to the story and to confront and rectify all of the whitewashing that has occurred. It's true that some of those voices are angry, resentful, even bitter. It's understandable, given the genuine oppression White men have visited on many, many groups over time. But you're right, it can get wearisome and/or go too far, and it isn't fair to generalize and lump every White male into one pile as if you are personally responsible for what members of your demographic have done without your individual approval or participation.

I don't see that as what's actually happening to you, though. Keep in mind than in a history class, groups are in fact referred to generally. Just because a teacher makes generalizations, it doesn't imply that blame is being laid on you, here, today.

I hope you are sensitive enough to the hazard of confirmation bias that you can see not everybody has a bone to pick with you for being a White guy. Most people judge others as individuals on a case-by-case basis. The impressions you make in terms of your own views and beliefs are going to be what's important to the people you meet. If you do make the mistake of only seeing resentment all around you, you will become defensive, possibly hateful, and your concerns about being the object of blame will become self-fulfilling prophecy. And really, at that point you would have earned it.

So try to keep this sort of thing in perspective, realizing that it isn't really about you.

Well said ST.

As a member of a racial (and gender) group who has benefited from a few centuries of dis-enfranchising, I understand that there will be an eventual backlash attempting to bring things back to equilibrium. While there might be some singling-out of 'white males' I certainly don't think it has reached anywhere near hysterical proportions and perhaps as a group (which is certainly not marginalised) there is a case-to-answer. Anyhow, as we say here - sometimes you just have to 'cop it sweet'

 

[Spiller]

Funny, I was thinking about Independence Day today, about how it's such a big thing in the US, but the date means nothing at all in the UK - but then, when did you last hear of an oppressor celebrating the hard won freedom of the people they oppressed? Yet we're all buddies now (I hope ) - other than the fact that I've thought about it, I (or any Brit) probably wouldn't give a thought to the atrocities my nation committed against yours more than 240 years ago as we stepped off the plane onto soil we once laid claim to, it's ancient history now.

Apartheid, specifically its eradication, is still a big thing in South Africa, it's still the very recent past for many - I daresay there are white and black racists there still, but my understanding is that, besides the turmoil of a truly awful economy and shaky government, the feelings of blacks for whites and vice-versa are generally pretty good - I'm told that we varungu (caucasians) are quite sought-after marriage partners in the South

My nation, the UK, may be one of the worst oppressors in history. I spent a number of years in my youth, as I became aware of the suffering of persecuted people and cultures, feeling guilty and ashamed for my implied association to all this, just because I'm a white Brit. But then I realised that every nation in history has oppressed and been oppressed; we're all the same.
I realised that what I was doing was borrowing these peoples' racial/historic pain, making myself feel bad imagining that they had a problem with me - it's always the few, not the majority, that are bent on maintaining this illogical waste of energy.. I guess some people just want to be angry - they just don't care, really, what or who the target is.
I've seen dark looks and heard derogatory comments from many (including my own race when I'm out with my female friend from Zimbabwe and our kids) but that is their problem, in their own heads, I don't feel like that and I don't need to take it on board - I certainly don't want to make my friend or our kids uncomfortable by feeling guilt or resentment over it.

Unfortunately, we're seeing this more now in the UK, immigrants having racist issues with Brits.. but also Brits' racist issues against immigrants getting worse - after maybe two decades during which racism was finally becoming a less than 'popular' mindset; our governments diversionary tactic of pointing the finger at handy scapegoats has a lot to answer for here, I think.

No need for any of it really - one day I and my family, or my kids and their families, may be fleeing the UK to escape war or famine.. will we then accept it as fair that we're persecuted by the countries we land in?
I think this thing will continue to tip back and forth indefinitely, or until we mature and pull together as a species.

People are people: we all share the same DNA, we all live on the same planet, we all feel and think and express ourselves in similar ways, we all have history, religion, power and persecution in common.
It's about time we all realised that we inevitably have a future in common too.

 

[Slithytoves]

I realised that what I was doing was borrowing these peoples' racial/historic pain, making myself feel bad imagining that they had a problem with me - it's always the few, not the majority, that are bent on maintaining this illogical waste of energy.. I guess some people just want to be angry - they just don't care, really, what or who the target is.

People are people: we all share the same DNA, we all live on the same planet, we all feel and think and express ourselves in similar ways, we all have history, religion, power and persecution in common. It's about time we all realised that we inevitably have a future in common too.

*Standing up and applauding.*

"Borrowing these peoples' racial/historic pain, making myself feel bad imagining that they had a problem with me...." Brilliantly stated. It's easy to do when you're in the majority, but no more correct (or productive) than the sentiments of those few who legitimately do want to lend it.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I would like to say something optimistic: I think (based on your description) you encountered a genuinely bigoted teacher. However, I don't think most people are like that teacher. It must have been unpleasant to take that class. However, once the class is done, most of the unpleasantness will eventually evaporate as you go through your daily life and (mostly) don't encounter that same sort of nastiness from the people you meet.

 

[Judge]

Funny, I was thinking about Independence Day today, about how it's such a big thing in the US, but the date means nothing at all in the UK - but then, when did you last hear of an oppressor celebrating the hard won freedom of the people they oppressed?

Sometimes (on rare occasion) it's just good politics.

But then you won't find anyone here likely celebrating the fall of South Viet Nam either. Point taken.

 

[Beverly]

I'm going to make this as short as I can. I am a Native American Indian, a member of the Salish - Kootenai Confederated Tribes, better known as the Flathead Indians. My ancetors were a part of Custer's Last Stand, they were also forced onto reservations with land that was of little value for agriculture or trade routes. Their way of life was all but stripped from them.

That was two hundred year and 14 generations ago. I would say to "my people" Get the F over it, it didn't happen to you, your parents or, grandparents, or anyone you know because any one it did happen to was dead long before you were born.

We live in a far different time, a different culture and society now and we need to quit dwelling on that history. While I value and uphold what I can of the old traditions and language, I don't live in the past. I am an American, same as any other human born in this country, that's all that matters. I don't deserve special treatment because of what white men did to my ancestors, that was then, this is now.

No doubt many will disagree with me, but, it irks me when people try to claim special treatment or compensation today for what happened to their long dead ancestors. Be proud of you heritage, remember the traditions and language, celebrate the old ways but, remember that any past wrongs done to your ancestors were not done to you and have little if any effect on your opportunities and life today.

 

[watersprite]

Beverly Those are strong words for anyone's/everyone's life. Nice post.
I now live in a lovely area of sw Montana, next to the Bitterroot R., and have been gradually reading of the Salish - Kootenai People, as well as listening to stories when they are offered here.

 

[Beverly]

kestrel, I grew up near Lolo, MT, probably a bit north of you. My family owns a homestead in Circle (Eastern MT) that will be mine one day. That is one of the most beautiful, peaceful areas to live in the entire state.

I am Salish and, it's good to see people still take an interest in our history and legends.

You might enjoy a trip to Evaro and Polson, there is a lot of our history along that road.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Why, yes. I have personally had idiots come up and start something. Random black people, Yankees, and one Ukrainian woman have chewed me out because I'm Southern Caucasian woman and for no other reason than that. I'd be minding my own business and then they'd find out what I was or just walk up to me and jump down my throat because I was one of "those evil ones". Oh, but it's not racist, because I was Southern and Caucasian. Completely ignore that I'm from a long line of share croppers and other po' folk, apparently they were just breaking their backs in the fields for the pleasure of it since it's common knowledge every Caucasian in the South owned a plantation. Grr, morons...

I've got multiple peoples in my bloodline, three of which were badly picked on by other cultures (carted off, force marched, enslaved, lotsa good stuff). While I do not hold the children of those cultures personally responsible for the stupidity of their ancestors, I do hold them responsible for the stupidity they indulge in. Such as expecting me to apologize to them for what my ancestors did when by their own logic they should be apologizing to me for what their ancestors did to mine. It's always the stupidest of society that does the worst research that tends to be the loudest and most obnoxious.

It's getting a lot more common for people to ask for equality, including pointing out racism toward Caucasians, so hopefully within the next few hundred years most of it will start being properly balanced. You're supposed to remember the past so you can avoid the same mistakes in the future, not so you can guilt-trip or kill anybody you don't like. If they can praise the Romans and Egyptians despite what they did to people, then they can get over some of the modern stuff too.

 

[hiraeth]

Yes, I once lost a good friend over my views on these things. The "social justice" movement is full of angry, hurt, traumatized people trying to make sense of the pain they've experienced in their own lives. Sometimes structural or historical causes appear to be the most appropriate explanation. Anger is one way of processing things. I don't think it is the best way. Not all white people are equally privileged and it's not fair to generalize like that. I've met tons of white folks who were disadvantaged in just about every way you can imagine, except for their race, which at that point doesn't mean a whole lot no matter how you try to frame it.

I do believe that inter-generational and historical trauma is real. I believe it based on what I've read of others who attribute much of their struggles to this phenomenon, but I have never experienced it myself because I do not feel connected to any culture, ancestry, or bloodline. I do not feel like anyone is my people, and that what happened with them has anything to do with me. This complete lack of roots and identification with any group of other humans often feels like a perpetual state of mild trauma, and I wonder how similar it would be to the trauma associated with a whole generation somewhere in a bloodline who had their culture and roots violently torn from them. It could never be the same again.

"Whiteness" as a concept, at least in the US which I've done a significant amount of reading and thinking about, started off as purely a category used to give certain people - not even all caucasian groups - a disproportionate amount of power and privilege. It doesn't have any depth or substance in and of itself. White isn't a culture. A large number of different cultures are caucasian, and not all of them have always gotten along, many of them still do not get along. The only substantial thing that the concept of "whiteness" had, if the conversation is about historical significance and intention, is that of being the violent colonizer and subjugator.

Most "white" people in North America today are a mix of several caucasian ethnicities dating many generations back and are not particularly connected or even informed about any one of them. I wonder, all the time, what that does to someone, not to grow up with at least an awareness of and exposure to a long history of ideas, traditions, and wisdom connected with a particular culture (that isn't "violent colonizer"). Even though I don't identify spiritually as a Chinese person, I've still drawn so much inspiration and creativity from the culture and language, which I grew up being exposed to, and I can't imagine who I'd be without those sources of inspiration. I don't blame white people when they are accused of "cultural appropriation". I understand why that can happen.

I identify only as an immigrant, as someone caught between and outside of any culture or nationality. White people have done messed up things. People of colour have done messed up things. Humans everywhere do messed up things. I wish we can move past all of this already, but unfortunately, sometimes I feel like it is getting worse.