Excessive Attachments in lieu of Friendship?

[Adora]

I can relate I personally stopped going to work because I am afraid they will find out the real me and then start to make fun of me.

I can relate to being made fun of,it's another reason I have issues connecting to people.

 

[ChurchTheArtist]

I can relate I personally stopped going to work because I am afraid they will find out the real me and then start to make fun of me.

Hey, that is one of the reasons why I have been working to build my own business. I was tired of being ridiculed by 45 year old toddlers who had nothing better to do than relive the grade school pranks and insults. Had a boss who thought it was hilarious to bang on the bathroom door when someone was using it to scare them. ...Yeah, no one needs that in their life. Especially not at work.

 

[OkRad]

I can relate rather well but I have been working my way out of that mentality. After about 10 years of dealing with those extreme thoughts I decided to address them and change.

Part of having friends is understanding that it involves two people and if your feelings are so extreme, you unbalance the relationship. I could fill three courses on the cause/effects of the ideals you describe and how it causes turbulence with others but I'll save it. You can either wait to find another person with such extreme feelings of friendship or you can learn to control your own thoughts, tone down some and come to a level more relatable to others thus making you more compatible in friendship with more people. But I warn you, if you were to find someone who will feel so extremely about friendship as you described to you, you may find that being on the recipient end feels like trying to ride an angry bull.

We with aspergers often don't realize how volatile and unpredictable we are to others since 90% of our conversations take place in our heads. Our expectations create a moving platform we expect others to jump onto, and when they don't... well, we get disappointed. And that's why it's hard for people like us to have friends because most aspies can't recognize that being friends with them is like running an obstacle course with no reward other than the course itself.

Learn to be a friend that enjoys people for who they are, not for who you think they can be. If it's too much work to be your friend, no one will want to do it. That's speaking from experience.

*Shrug* I know your OP didn't exactly ask my opinion but you didn't really ask anything; you just voiced what was on your mind so I'm voicing what's on mine.

I am glad you posted. I am glad to say that I have finally recognized it and am NOT doing it at present and guarding against it. But, as you know, getting to the other part is hard.

One clarification... I NEVER wanted to be friends with people for what they could do for me. I am so empathetic that I have ended friendships for the very reasons you stated. I could see the other person trying to jump on the moving platform. That is a GREAT description.

I do not want to hurt or confuse anyone. I am now mute in public and do not talk unless spoken to, then I keep it brief. I am not sure I want it ever to go beyond that. Maybe one day. But stable people sniff us out like a mouse does cheese. And they stay away. And that leaves us with unstable people, as you said, two like that? Been there......never again.

 

[ChurchTheArtist]

Seems like you know exactly what I'm saying.

Isn't it weird though? I've had socially neutral people tell me how well I hide my autism and all yet they still can't explain why NT's seem to sniff me out and avoid friendships.

Maybe it's because most people want friendships that are too easy. It's one thing to be difficult as a friend but when you are reasonable it often seems like that's still too much to ask from others. Like, if you aren't always the one perpetuating things, they'd let it drop like a newborn giraffe.

Interacting with other humans shouldn't be this hard! We need to go back to the middle ages or something before the Idiocracy prophecy happens!

 

[OkRad]

Isn't it weird though? I've had socially neutral people tell me how well I hide my autism and all yet they still can't explain why NT's seem to sniff me out and avoid friendships.

THIS drives me crazy, too! Maybe it's because we are so intense, but again, I know intense people with friends. Maybe it's because we feel so much, but then again, I know lots of feeler with friends.

It is VERY odd to me that neither we nor NTs can understand why it is that we are shunned like we are. To me, that is just baffling. How can no one know?

I must say since my accident, I don't try to hide it and I do feel better because now in my mind, I KNOW why people shun me. I look very weird.

Oddly, I do have a lot of people coming up to try to connect. It's strange. I literally walk around with a book in my hand to send the message that I am not connecting. I wear a goofy knit hat all the time and don't talk. Invariably, people start to look and then someone will gently ask what I am reading.

I do not mind now because NOW I KNOW it's going nowhere. NOW I KNOW, so I smile and maybe squeek out a word or two. I don't want to hurt anyone and those who have the guts to approach me, I am SURE are good people trying to be nice. And if everyone leaves me alone, that means I get another chapter of Tacitus in!

There are a few who greet me regularly here and there and that's OK, too. That used to confuse me because I thought they wanted to be a friend. But now I get it and that is OK. As long as I no longer fake, I am better able to accept that no one wants to know me.

 

[Adder1234]

Over the years I've developed a system of working out when friendships will work and when they won't.

First of all; is this a person a genuinely kind person, or at least someone I can see myself being friends with? This is about the most important point and you may discover that the person is not as nice as you first thought. if this happens, don't be afraid of cutting them off, since there is nothing worse that friends who have a negative impact on you.

Second; does the person have similar interests, ideas and opinions as me? The person in question doesn't have to be a perfect copy of you, just someone who you can talk to who will talk with you about your interests. It doesn't matter how nice a person is, if they don't like the same things as you it won't work out. This may also take a few meetings to work out, but a person who is nice to you can still be a good acquaintance to have, so you can still hang out with them if you feel like it.

Third; can I and this person form a bond over time and have enough interactions to form a bond? This may differ from person to person, but I myself have a lot of trouble with long distance relationships. If the person that you want to be friends and you are able to meet fairly often, even if its just to go shopping of just to hang out for half an hour or so, then you could definitely be friends. This is why people who work, study or live near one another often become friends. You need to have meetings like this in order to learn more about them and their interests, and so that they can learn about you. Again, the time between these meetings can be different depending of your ability to handle long distance friendships.

Also, remember that this process can take a long time and that you cant rush it. It's like any relationship, it has to develop and evolve over time. For instance, my best friend and I first met about 5 or 6 years ago in high school, through a mutual acquaintance. He is about 4 years older than me, so we didn't have any classes together, but we hung out during lunch and whole school activities. We also had another friend, who moved 2 years ago and we lost contact with him. We first realised that we both liked the same movies and tv shows and that we had a similar sense of humour. This about when you can consider the two of you friends. After about a year of of meeting at school, community events and other situations that we were both at, he and my other friend asked if they could have a sleepover at my house for the weekend. After that, they came over once every month or two, and we introduced each other to our families and other acquaintances. At this point we were good friends. After about two years of meeting, going to each other's houses and stuff, we had basically reached the point where we were best friends, meaning that we literally invited each other to everything, went to the movies, gave each other relationship advice and generally trusted each other with everything.

Sorry for the super long post, but that was my guide for making friends, based on my life experience. Feel free to ask if you have any questions.

 

[Clintos]

Hey, that is one of the reasons why I have been working to build my own business. I was tired of being ridiculed by 45 year old toddlers who had nothing better to do than relive the grade school pranks and insults. Had a boss who thought it was hilarious to bang on the bathroom door when someone was using it to scare them. ...Yeah, no one needs that in their life. Especially not at work.

Yeah that was rude to bang on the washroom door. I too, would love to be self employed, I kind of am, right now, by delivering newspapers in the morning. But I need something that brings in more money and that I can do on my own for the most part or where I do not need to put up with people too much.

 

[Clintos]

I am glad you posted. I am glad to say that I have finally recognized it and am NOT doing it at present and guarding against it. But, as you know, getting to the other part is hard.

One clarification... I NEVER wanted to be friends with people for what they could do for me. I am so empathetic that I have ended friendships for the very reasons you stated. I could see the other person trying to jump on the moving platform. That is a GREAT description.

I do not want to hurt or confuse anyone. I am now mute in public and do not talk unless spoken to, then I keep it brief. I am not sure I want it ever to go beyond that. Maybe one day. But stable people sniff us out like a mouse does cheese. And they stay away. And that leaves us with unstable people, as you said, two like that? Been there......never again.

When I was younger my dad always said "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all". I took that literally and felt that he meant that I shouldn't talk because he thinks I never have anything nice to say because I was depressed at the time. From there on I refused to talk and express myself for fear of not saying the right thing. Still to this day I barely talk unless I really have to.

The tongue can break bones, imo.

 

[OkRad]

When I was younger my dad always said "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all". I took that literally and felt that he meant that I shouldn't talk because he thinks I never have anything nice to say because I was depressed at the time. From there on I refused to talk and express myself for fear of not saying the right thing. Still to this day I barely talk unless I really have to.

The tongue can break bones, imo.

That is so interesting, that you stopped talking based on that one conversation. I stopped, too, but it was so much more complicated. Do you think that you would have stopped anyway? I do. I did not talk when young, and was forced to by NT therapists who kept harping on socializing. After my accident, things crystallized and I could no longer fake at all. It was a long journey back into silence.

I like it. I hope you like it, too? To me, it's peaceful. You are lucky to have gotten there early. Of all the chatter I have been involved in, there are only a few people I feel I ever should have talked to. Family and a few souls who braved to be kind to me. And of course, those who have power over you like drs and things like that.

But if I have utter 10 million words so far, all I needed to utter was maybe 100,000 to get by, be kind, clarify where needed and tell people who I love that I love them.

 

[OkRad]

Over the years I've developed a system of working out when friendships will work and when they won't.

First of all; is this a person a genuinely kind person, or at least someone I can see myself being friends with? This is about the most important point and you may discover that the person is not as nice as you first thought. if this happens, don't be afraid of cutting them off, since there is nothing worse that friends who have a negative impact on you.

Second; does the person have similar interests, ideas and opinions as me? The person in question doesn't have to be a perfect copy of you, just someone who you can talk to who will talk with you about your interests. It doesn't matter how nice a person is, if they don't like the same things as you it won't work out. This may also take a few meetings to work out, but a person who is nice to you can still be a good acquaintance to have, so you can still hang out with them if you feel like it.

Third; can I and this person form a bond over time and have enough interactions to form a bond? This may differ from person to person, but I myself have a lot of trouble with long distance relationships. If the person that you want to be friends and you are able to meet fairly often, even if its just to go shopping of just to hang out for half an hour or so, then you could definitely be friends. This is why people who work, study or live near one another often become friends. You need to have meetings like this in order to learn more about them and their interests, and so that they can learn about you. Again, the time between these meetings can be different depending of your ability to handle long distance friendships.

Also, remember that this process can take a long time and that you cant rush it. It's like any relationship, it has to develop and evolve over time. For instance, my best friend and I first met about 5 or 6 years ago in high school, through a mutual acquaintance. He is about 4 years older than me, so we didn't have any classes together, but we hung out during lunch and whole school activities. We also had another friend, who moved 2 years ago and we lost contact with him. We first realised that we both liked the same movies and tv shows and that we had a similar sense of humour. This about when you can consider the two of you friends. After about a year of of meeting at school, community events and other situations that we were both at, he and my other friend asked if they could have a sleepover at my house for the weekend. After that, they came over once every month or two, and we introduced each other to our families and other acquaintances. At this point we were good friends. After about two years of meeting, going to each other's houses and stuff, we had basically reached the point where we were best friends, meaning that we literally invited each other to everything, went to the movies, gave each other relationship advice and generally trusted each other with everything.

Sorry for the super long post, but that was my guide for making friends, based on my life experience. Feel free to ask if you have any questions.

This is very very helpful! I will remember this. My trouble, though, is that I really cannot connect. There are some of us who really can't even get to that HI part. I am very much like LFA in that. Even just basic conversation is out. I can write like anything, but cannot connect to even see if that person has the same interests.

Plus, I am just scared of people now. I have been abused a lot so right now, it's good for me to be quiet and alone, but I will remember this post if , by a miracle, I ever do meet someone and have more than a HI!

 

[Clintos]

That is so interesting, that you stopped talking based on that one conversation. I stopped, too, but it was so much more complicated. Do you think that you would have stopped anyway?

Now that I think about it I probably would of. I believe it's in my nature and that I prefer to be silent. Unfortunately being silent has affected my life in a negative way. I didn't know I had Aspergers until last year which explains a lot about why I am silent, it also has to be with over stimuli from other sources while I am trying to concentrate on a conversation. Along with sometimes I just do not want to talk or I am honestly not interested, I am still trying to figure this out. I think it's mostly because I am honestly not good at it, so I just do not do it. If there was treatment for this I would take it. Sometime I wish I could re-live my childhood again.

If you want to talk I am always available just pm me. I'm not the most talkative but I am working on this.

 

[fuðflogi]

I have a big problem. This post looks longer than it is because I made sure to keep paragraphs short to avoid wall- text.

Basically, this is a substitute my brain does since I cannot make friends. It is not attachment disorder or obsession. It's a true desire to be a friend and because I cannot, I get attached to someone and it's so strong since it's just one way because I cannot make friends.

It generally, almost always, starts when someone else is continually kind to me. Like a professor or a pastor or even a person who sees my plight and starts to want to know more. Then I think I might have a friend!!

I get excited, but then it all goes south for some reason or other because I cannot make friends, so then it goes into my head.

I will think about them and have a friendship with them in my mind. If it keeps going, they become like my co-pilot, it can be so strong. Often decisions I make can be steered by them (If it's a prof, I could totally switch majors!).

UPSHOT IS:
I want to see them, even if its a glimpse and try to smile at them and want to make them happy doing little things. But..... I NEVER EVER cross the line. Once it goes into just Head Mode, I might give them a card on birthday or a note to say Hi. And I think sometimes they catch on, think maybe I am crushing on them, but I am not.

They are always good people so they, even the imaginary them, never steer me wrong. In fact, the "Them" in my head are probably better than they are in real life because they are an always good form of whoever they are and half the time I DON'T EVEN KNOW THEM because I can't make friends!!

It's like an imaginary perfect them that is leading me around and they make me feel happy, like I have a friend.

DOWN SIDE IS:
However, if I do not see them for a while, I get sad. And if, during this time they do not return a greeting or if they are sharp with me or if they ignore me as people often do when they are in a rush or something, I AM CRUSHED beyond redemption for days.

My Brain Pilot is gone and I am at sea alone with waves all over!

Then I start to realize I am in it again. Then I realize it has happened again, that I am alone in my head, that the other person does not want to be a friend and never did.

It gets really complex and my brain starts to feel hijacked.
........and I try to get them out of my head which is almost impossible.

I dropped out of a great school once when this happened. Another time, dropped out of therapy and T was like "WTF?" Another time, the other person kept leading me on like I was a friend then not then was then not. That went on 14 years.

Now, here is the rub. If I could be a friend, these would all have been just plain friendships! All of them were people who I wanted to just be friends, not more.

In one sense this is not bad at all. It gave me hope and friends when I cannot make them. But it hurts in then end.

I hate autism.

It's like a chapter from my story! All it takes for me is a little kindness,then I come on stronger than I should expressing my desire to be friends ,ask if they want to hang,and then I get no communication, then try again putting them off further. Again and again it happens! But I have learned that it's not me as much as it is the other person,being unable to cope with the sincerity and openness because for the most part peeps can't be other than what their society expects and that is to not show how they feel for whatever reason,not being vulnerable or what have you. I haven't figured how to change the feelings so I can't help there,but know this; YOU are a good person with a huge capacity for caring, don't change that,a person or people are out there who are capable of receiving your friendship and being honest about it. Hang in there the autism isn't your enemy, it's a gift and some day the world will catch up. Keep loving.

 

[ChurchTheArtist]

Oddly, I do have a lot of people coming up to try to connect. It's strange. I literally walk around with a book in my hand to send the message that I am not connecting. I wear a goofy knit hat all the time and don't talk. Invariably, people start to look and then someone will gently ask what I am reading.

I do not mind now because NOW I KNOW it's going nowhere. NOW I KNOW, so I smile and maybe squeek out a word or two. I don't want to hurt anyone and those who have the guts to approach me, I am SURE are good people trying to be nice. And if everyone leaves me alone, that means I get another chapter of Tacitus in!

It's strange to say because your words teem on the edge of cynical but they are actually well thought out and some of the most healthy (public) thoughts I've heard on this site in the year I've been here. It's a tight-rope to walk to acknowledge that most people don't care and yet be okay with that, just play along and be polite and take it as a positive.

I mean, a lot of aspies are impossible to please. You don't talk to them, they are angry; you talk to them and they bite your head off and you leave, they get angry; you talk to them and they say something inappropriate and you leave, they get angry; you talk to them and are perfectly fine but you don't stick to them for the rest of eternity, they get angry. There's no winning with most aspies and they blame it on the world instead of changing their outlook.

I just wish more aspies can chill and accept that saying "Hi, how are you?" is nice and doesn't have to be followed with either a full life story or a "what do you care?" Sometimes, people can smile at a stranger and it means nothing more than a silent "have a good day." So many people I've seen on aspie forums think that being polite means lying and "not being true to who I am" or "wearing a mask" or "placating to foolish standards."

Sometimes, being nice is just being nice and it shouldn't have to be connected to lifelong commitments.

 

[ChurchTheArtist]

Yeah that was rude to bang on the washroom door. I too, would love to be self employed, I kind of am, right now, by delivering newspapers in the morning. But I need something that brings in more money and that I can do on my own for the most part or where I do not need to put up with people too much.

It's a rough place to be but maybe I can give you another idea to have in the back of your mind. You either need more money OR you need fewer expenses.

It took me a few years of hard work but I dedicated everything to reducing my expenses by building a tiny house and paying off my car etc. I may not make a whole lot of money but because I reduced my expenses, it's not as stressful and I'm free to make less while I try to get the business going. It's harder to do your own thing if you live a life with the expenses that require a full time income.

Good luck though! We could all use a little less stress and more blessings!

 

[OkRad]

It's strange to say because your words teem on the edge of cynical but they are actually well thought out and some of the most healthy (public) thoughts I've heard on this site in the year I've been here. It's a tight-rope to walk to acknowledge that most people don't care and yet be okay with that, just play along and be polite and take it as a positive.

I mean, a lot of aspies are impossible to please. You don't talk to them, they are angry; you talk to them and they bite your head off and you leave, they get angry; you talk to them and they say something inappropriate and you leave, they get angry; you talk to them and are perfectly fine but you don't stick to them for the rest of eternity, they get angry. There's no winning with most aspies and they blame it on the world instead of changing their outlook.

I just wish more aspies can chill and accept that saying "Hi, how are you?" is nice and doesn't have to be followed with either a full life story or a "what do you care?" Sometimes, people can smile at a stranger and it means nothing more than a silent "have a good day." So many people I've seen on aspie forums think that being polite means lying and "not being true to who I am" or "wearing a mask" or "placating to foolish standards."

Sometimes, being nice is just being nice and it shouldn't have to be connected to lifelong commitments.

Wow! Thank you, Church! That means a lot because I feel like I fail pretty much all the time. But maybe failing is not so bad.
I will be considering this as a keep trying to just be OK with everything and everyone. I know it should not be this hard, but constantly fighting it? That makes it so much worse.

 

[OkRad]

It's like a chapter from my story! All it takes for me is a little kindness,then I come on stronger than I should expressing my desire to be friends ,ask if they want to hang,and then I get no communication, then try again putting them off further. Again and again it happens! But I have learned that it's not me as much as it is the other person,being unable to cope with the sincerity and openness because for the most part peeps can't be other than what their society expects and that is to not show how they feel for whatever reason,not being vulnerable or what have you. I haven't figured how to change the feelings so I can't help there,but know this; YOU are a good person with a huge capacity for caring, don't change that,a person or people are out there who are capable of receiving your friendship and being honest about it. Hang in there the autism isn't your enemy, it's a gift and some day the world will catch up. Keep loving.

Those are really encouraging words! I do want to see the Autism as a gift and I think, by being here and seeing how many people find it a comfort, it's helping. Also by analyzing all the good parts about it and not being afraid to be what the world calls "a freak". There are a lot of people out there who are not open to people like me, but those who are? I am finding that they are really something special.

You are a good person, too! And one that I can see looks for the good in things, too. If we keep reaching out and not being afraid to be vulnerable, I wonder what will happen? To be vulnerable and forgive ourselves when the other person just pulls back, to forgive them and like you said, realize they cannot help it. They DO have to cover and hide. How awesome that we can't! That is a good thing.

 

[OkRad]

Now that I think about it I probably would of. I believe it's in my nature and that I prefer to be silent. Unfortunately being silent has affected my life in a negative way. I didn't know I had Aspergers until last year which explains a lot about why I am silent, it also has to be with over stimuli from other sources while I am trying to concentrate on a conversation. Along with sometimes I just do not want to talk or I am honestly not interested, I am still trying to figure this out. I think it's mostly because I am honestly not good at it, so I just do not do it. If there was treatment for this I would take it. Sometime I wish I could re-live my childhood again.

If you want to talk I am always available just pm me. I'm not the most talkative but I am working on this.

I feel honoured that you would want to talk to me, considering we both have such communication issues. If I get up my own bravery, I might just do that! I have not PMed anyone yet and am not on FB, or any other social media believe it or not. That is how locked in I am at this time. And somehow it feels good.

I hope you can feel good about being silent one day. I am silent in public but I do talk at home. When I go out, it's like a shell and a protection AND also time I know I can think and block everything out.

 

[Clintos]

People make me feel like I am being rude by not talking, I hope to one day accept that I am just a quite person and that there is nothing wrong with that. I wish I could at least turn my talking ability on and off like a switch instead of being stuck on mute. I think we might have a lot in commom since we are kind of in our own world, no offense. Even when I am around my mother I hardly talk. pm me anytime I have only 1 friend in my life and have plenty of time for more.

 

[Astroganga]

Again, another post I could have written... I do this all. the. time.

Well, since it happened I questioned my judgement of the situation so decided to get some NTs I know to look at it with 'fresh eyes' so to speak, it sounds creepy maybe, but I took screenshots of parts of my conversations with my friend at the time, as happy mementos, and those came in handy. My NT friends all independently came to the same conclusion and that was that this 'friend' was gaslighting me, he seemed to have a crush on me but instead of addressing his feelings he was trying to blame me for him developing them, plus he was perfectly happy to chat with me and share personal things until he just inexplicably switched, and they all said delete him as a friend on facebook at the very least because he clearly has serious issues. I feel a bit relieved, there were times when I probably did go overboard with a friendship but with this person, that wasn't the case and it was his problem.

 

[J.T.]

From my personal experience the best thing you can do is to learn love/being ok with yourself. I've been Buddhist on and off for a while. It has taught me to let go and to be be just be. Luckily I have one really good friend that's probably the closest I've ever come to having a best friend.You'll know when you've made a really good friend, because when you talk after 3 or 4 months it'll be like the time gap never happened. The conversation picks up where it left off. Even hanging out feels that way. Find people that have similar interests to you then move from there is the best advice I can give.