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Emotion and logic: are they more than normally separated in us compared to NTs?

MrSpock

Live long and prosper
Before I was aware that I had Asperger's I had noticed differences between myself and others, and my unofficial diagnosis makes sense of most of these differences. But I'm not sure if the biggest difference I've noticed is an aspie trait or not, and I'd appreciate the opinions of others on this site. Since becoming aware of my autism and until today I'd assumed it was part of the package, since it might go some way toward explaining why we tend to be good at the sciences.

I've noticed that my emotions and logic seem more separated than in most people, when I am reasoning it is not impaired by emotion, and on the rare occasions when I am free to become passionate without disastrous result I don't 'think' in what I consider to be the normal sense at all.

Do you think that this is true of yourself? Could this explain in part our inability to place labels on the feelings of others? And maybe the trouble with hints as well, which seem illogical and are perhaps the result of emotions interfering with the logical process of turning thoughts into words? And maybe something else you have thought of that I have not?

Please feel free to share any insights you may have regarding this, it's not a new concept to me but I've not discussed it with anyone before and would like to explore it more thoroughly.
 
I am not good with science, because I was never taught science, but get trickings coming my way, that do interest me, so perhaps if given the chance, I would be good lol

Anyway, yes, I am pretty much like that. I am a very logical person and when I hear of terrible things happening, I do tend to look at the logic of why it happened, rather than the emotional aspect of it and other times am very emotional. I give an example.

There was a terrorist attack in Nice last year and in truth I thought. We had a state of emergency in France because of this and so, if it actually had been placed there, then there would be no chance for the terrorist attacks to occur; but they thrive on major activities to gain the best effect. I also did similar with the Paris attacks; I was looking at the whys and wherefores of it, rather than the horror of it. So I recongise now, I have to be very careful with some, because I have got myself in hot water for my apparent coldheartedness.

Conversily, I read of a little girl who was 6, when she was fostered out, due to sexual abuse in her family. She was 7 when she arrived at school with splayed legs, which caught her teacher's attention and with horror discovered that she had two different sexual diseases and this was from her foster parents; so both of them had been abusing her too. I was in tears and shaking and just wanted to bring her to safety and felt very caught. No logic there for me.

Perhaps the reason is more to do with how close to home such things are, as to whether one is logical or emotional?
 
I've noticed that my emotions and logic seem more separated than in most people, when I am reasoning it is not impaired by emotion, and on the rare occasions when I am free to become passionate without disastrous result I don't 'think' in what I consider to be the normal sense at all.

Quoted the wrong bit... our inability to place labels on others...

If nobody asks me how I am or defines a mood for me.... technically I'm not in a mood at all, I have no need to define myself in that way.
So I don't label myself as such.

I guess others define their emotions first which then colours their world.
Emotions can also create strong memories of events....

Perhaps I'm trying to link it to the common habit :
Make a judgement on an isolated event that they personally know about and make a general conclusion from that about everybody

When we try to do the opposite .. gather the evidence, come to a conclusion.... before we can answer 'how are you?'

Something like that only written better

Interesting
 
I rarely act on emotions, unless I'm passionate about something (such as a cause, or someone being treated unfairly, etc.).

When I was diagnosed, I was asked to describe my moods (they don't really change very often at all), and then to describe a "physical" or "psychological" description of various emotions.

I was unable to describe (other than giving rational, logical examples) of:

Love
Anger
Rage
Hate

I have the ability (or lack of ability) to feel the "good" emotions, but I don't have any descriptions for anger and/or rage, because I've only felt them about 3 times in my life, and it's easier for me to departmentalize them in the back of my mind until they are needed.

Apparently what others would consider anger or rage is what I call "frustration." I don't get "angry," but I will obsess for days over why someone did something or said something that I simply don't understand. Whether it's someone who reacts differently than I expected, or someone who has mistakenly taken offense at something they *think* I did (when I didn't), I'm more apt to think there is something about me that lead them to that conclusion and thus, I get frustrated trying to center my concerns.

Hatred is not an emotion, to me. It's a "foreign object" in my brain. Anyone who has risen to a level of hatred had to do something so wrong or ruin my life in such a way that I don't give them space in my head, but I won't let it go until they pass away. Sometimes it takes 40 years, but sooner or later, they all do.

I was told that many people on the spectrum have a lot of anger, and I've noticed it in a lot of people I've met after being diagnosed. I guess I'm one of those people who has already been through "H*ll" and thinks everything after that is easy.

In addition, my past has made me stronger and more confident and I learned, "Not to sweat the small stuff." Because, in the end, even the big stuff ... is small.
 
I don't understand the decisions people make which seem to me completely illogical and sometimes even stupid because of their emotions. I've said to my Mum before in certain situations where she's told me of something someone is thinking of doing or has done, and I'm like "but why didn't they just do xyz" and she thinks I'm being heartless. Nope, I just don't understand why you wouldn't do the sensible, logical thing.
 
Last session my therapist asked me I felt empathy. I told him I think I feel strong empathy. Over the last month I have paid closer attention to the times I felt I should have empathy. I found that I was feeling empathy, but with no expression, or not feeling anything at all. My logic kicks in and I feel deep disappointment, because I could do nothing about the situation. So I had the expression of deep disappointment to mask the fact of not having physical signs of empathy.

Only when I allow basic instincts to drive my emotions do I act on emotion, or dare I say, over react?

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.” ― Walter Scott

I was just thinking about the implications this could have for my future behavior and my diagnosis. What effects does a continued false expression of emotion have on a anomalous psyche? Maybe I'm overthinking it.
 
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I have both to a great degree. I am very emotional but also extremely logical. I don't think you have to be one more than the other.

SOmetimes one is stronger than the other, that is for sure. I always shoot for logic to take precedence under most situations, but I also love to be so moved by emotions that I can go into an altered state.
 
I can be rather passionate about logic and common sense. But then being an underwriter for decades can do that to a person too.

Where common sense is an absolute requirement as a part of a complex decision-making process that has to be expressed to a client.
 
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Before I was aware that I had Asperger's I had noticed differences between myself and others, and my unofficial diagnosis makes sense of most of these differences. But I'm not sure if the biggest difference I've noticed is an aspie trait or not, and I'd appreciate the opinions of others on this site. Since becoming aware of my autism and until today I'd assumed it was part of the package, since it might go some way toward explaining why we tend to be good at the sciences.

I've noticed that my emotions and logic seem more separated than in most people, when I am reasoning it is not impaired by emotion, and on the rare occasions when I am free to become passionate without disastrous result I don't 'think' in what I consider to be the normal sense at all.

Do you think that this is true of yourself? Could this explain in part our inability to place labels on the feelings of others? And maybe the trouble with hints as well, which seem illogical and are perhaps the result of emotions interfering with the logical process of turning thoughts into words? And maybe something else you have thought of that I have not?

Please feel free to share any insights you may have regarding this, it's not a new concept to me but I've not discussed it with anyone before and would like to explore it more thoroughly.

I have read that the difference between NT and AS brains is related to the connecting pathways between the logical and emotional processing parts of the brain. NT brains are more connected, so NT perception is inevitably a blend of logic and emotion, which they find difficult to completely separate. Whereas AS brains are less connected, so AS perception is naturally more divided between logic and emotion. This causes a fundamental gap in communication as it is challenging for NT and AS to understand how each other perceive and respond to things.
 
@Maplelucky13 Thanks so much, confirmation of this is gold. Unfortunately I can only rate your post once. Do you remember where you read this? If you could tell me where I'd really appreciate it. Happy Spock.
 
I feel very emotions deeply but for me, there is a wall between feeling and logic 99% of the time. I can be hurt and devastated and then move that to the side to make a decision about a situation without letting my hurt affect logical thought processes. I do this so I can protect those I care about from the negative repercussions that would accrue if I made a thoughtless decision based only on my own hurt and want to strike out, but instead of seeing this as me trying to care for them most people take it as not caring at all and call me cold or heartless or something of the like... which leads to more hurt.

I have a point for this bit I promise.

I recently took an "Are you a Psychopath" test, its just a presentation of two hypothetical situations. In the first, you are asked if you would flip a switch that would make a speeding train move from a track that had five helpless people on it to a track that only had one helpless person on it. Most people answer yes, spare the five for the one... But then you are presented with the same question only this time you have to kill the one person with your own hands to save the five. Apparently, NT people answer NO to this one and it takes them a while to make up their mind, but psychopaths answer YES and it takes them almost no time to do it.
This is because there are two types of empathy, hot empathy, and cold empathy. In the first scenario, the cold empathy is triggered and people can separate themselves for the death of the one person and reassure themselves that they are saving five so this isn't too hard a choice. However, in the second scenario, the Hot empathy is the one that's triggered in the NT's but Psychopaths still only use the cold empathy for this one too. So the NT's feel like murders because they cant seporate themselves from the one persons death if they do it directly the way they could if it was just flipping a switch and not seeing the death accure.
Before this explanation, I answered yes to both questions, and thought 'oh great, I'm actually a psychopath...' But after the explanation I found out that's sort of the opposite of the case, because for me it was hot empathy both times, I made the decision that I could if I had to, sacrifice one person for five. It was always murder in my mind, no separation because I couldn't look them in the eyes the first time, I was choosing to take their life either way and it would probably destroy me after the fact but I could make the call.
So I feel like I'm emotionally always running hot, the difference between me and both the NT's and Psychopaths is that I can just make those nasty calls while looking someone in the eye instead of just when I can safely hide from what I've done or because I didn't fully understand the implications.


For me, this makes a lot of sense for just the way I think differently than most people in our society, for example, my opinion on Kindness vs Niceness.

Niceness is a surface polite placating pretend smile that follows all the social rules, hems and haws appropriately and then goes away talking s**t behind your back and not actually caring as long as appearances are kept up, and our society puts a premium on this pretense.

Kindness is someone who tells you no you're not right and doesn't care that you're mad at them about it because they are taking care of you instead of placating you, its someone who doesn't always say the right thing but will actually be there when you need them, someone who may not make small talk to your face but will defend you when someone else tries to talk behind your back, someone who cares about you when no one is looking or expecting them too.

Kindness is a lot rarer and more precious than Niceness but it's commonly turned away or crushed underfoot because it often doesn't come in as pretty a package as niceness.

So I think perhaps Having the ability to separate logic and emotion is a gift (when use with care) but I can't say if its an Autism thing or not just that it seems frightfully rare.

Wow, I'm long winded, sorry!
 
Long winded? I'd have said generous and informative. I like the distinction you make between niceness and kindness, and I agree completely. I'd rather be around people who appear to be in a bad mood all the time but who are honest and will have your back as opposed to someone who has learned to manipulate others through the 'social graces'. The worst psychopaths achieve positions of power through niceness.

If you've read many of my posts you might reassess yours as being medium-winded. I'm glad you did not choose to abridge your post as I would be poorer for it.
 
Long winded? I'd have said generous and informative. I like the distinction you make between niceness and kindness, and I agree completely. I'd rather be around people who appear to be in a bad mood all the time but who are honest and will have your back as opposed to someone who has learned to manipulate others through the 'social graces'. The worst psychopaths achieve positions of

If you've read many of my posts you might reassess yours as being medium-winded. I'm glad you did not choose to abridge your post as I would be poorer for it.

That's was very nice :)
 
i like to say emotions to an aspy is like trying to run windows software on a mac comp. you ether run it and mess things up or you disregard it and live mostly by logic
 
i dont think with emotion at all,but as for being logically minded im not sure,im not that aware of how i think.
 
I am more analytical of feelings and more selective on who I want to share them with. I think in a way they are more separate for us than for NTs.
 
I am more analytical of feelings and more selective on who I want to share them with. I think in a way they are more separate for us than for NTs.

Good point.

In hindsight I think I tend to compartmentalize my use of logic and emotion in general. Making me often appear to run "hot or cold" to many NTs. That there always seems to be an expectation or demand for me to be more consistent than I am capable of, or want to be.
 
From what I've read, emotion and logic really are more separate in us (there are some links to articles below - some of them have the usual tone of "autistic brains are defective and need fixing", but the research is at least interesting).

Generally speaking, I make decisions logically, without involving emotions. I do experience very strong emotions sometimes (usually linked to unfairness towards people or people/animals suffering), but usually not when I'm making decisions. Maybe this is because of the problems we are supposed to have with "cognitive empathy" - maybe a bit like Steff's "cold empathy"? We don't connect our image of "self" with a hypothetical situation as much as NTs do. We do "affective" and "compassionate empathy" ("hot empathy"?) very well, though - but that might be less likely to influence decision-making.

Anyway, involving emotions in decisions often seems to lead to tears. Best avoided, probably.

This paragraph (from Identifying Autism from Neural Representations of Social Interactions: Neurocognitive Markers of Autism) caught my eye: (the whole article is pretty technical)

The main finding provides a plausible biological basis for the psychological phenomenon of altered conceptions of social interaction in autism. The factor analyses indicate the autism group lacked a self factor and instead had a factor corresponding to the verbs’ impersonal semantic (abstract-physical) properties. The participants with autism may have viewed the social interactions referred to by the verbs as though they themselves were a spectator (like an “anthropologist on Mars,” as described by Temple Grandin, referring to how a person with autism might view complex social interactions without self-involvement [36]).

Emotional decision-making in autism spectrum disorder: the roles of interoception and alexithymia

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081015110228.htm

Recognizing Autism and Emotion in Brain Scans
 
I am not sure about my own division of labor in this case, but one thing I have noticed is that NTs seem to be much less likely to notice they are behaving irrationally; and just as less likely to care, than myself, an Aspie.

ME: This is a tough problem -- thinking -- wait, that's not a rational way to look at it! I am actually behaving irrationally! What a pain in the behind. But -- I cannot escape the fact that this is not rational or sensible or logical. Therefore, I must change the stupid behavior.

NT: This is a tough problem. But I like doing this. I don't want to stop doing this. I will decide this is not a stupid way to behave. Because I feel so good about doing it. I will stop thinking now.

These are exaggerations for effect, none of this is that fast on either side. But I believe it to be accurate, simply based on the sheer volume of people who will flat out refuse to do a very sensible thing.

Like a friend on a nutrional board I spend time on. He had a neighbor who walked, very slowly, with a cane, in obvious pain. Oh, she was so unhappy.

He had successfully abated his own arthritis with diet changes and supplements and he was thrilled about it. He shared this info with his neighbor, and in a short time, she was walking without the cane! Feeling so much better! A success story!

Then he saw her bent over with the cane and miserable again. What happened? Oh, she didn't want to eat that way any more, she had to give up her "treats" and it made her conspicuous at family gatherings not eating what everyone else was eating and she didn't want to keep track of vitamins all the time. (Never mind that she had a whole schedule of pills for the arthritis and the vitamins were cheaper and easier.)

She traded freedom of movement and freedom from pain for... what? Fitting in with everyone else?

I cannot figure that out.
 
Yes, one or the other, almost always and completely, outweighs and blocks the other, in my mind.

Trigger Warning! Opinions Expressed below :eek:

This is not an attack on anyone. I enjoy thinking :D, and playing the devils advocate:innocent: to provoke myself into looking at things differently. And I'm a high school dropout so, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I also enjoy humor and sarcasm, but "they can't all be zingers"- Greg Turkington aka Neil Hamburger.

One can rationalize irrational behavior. Rationalized behavior isn't "always" logical.

If not fitting in causes anxiety or mental pain, would it be logical to avoid it. It sounds as if your friends experience of mental pain outweigh the physical pain.

I can relate. I take physical pain and it's burdens much better than anxiety and the burdens it causes. This is my own personal experience.

Does she receive government or other assistance based on the severity? Just a though question, no need to reply.

For me it is rational and logical for those around me to be happy. When empathy is the "appropriate" response whether it be sickness or death. I only feel disappointment that I couldn't stop it from happening or can't keep it from continuing to happen. Sometimes I feel nothing.
 
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