Does anyone struggle with this thought..

[Hurting89]

This is something I have always feared but have never admitted to anyone (ever) the fear that the Asperger's diagnosis could subject me to control by the "system". I used to fear being thrown into an institution or group home and having my every right taken away from me subjecting me to me controlled by a caregiver and the Mental Health system. This may be a stupid fear but i have read stories of this happening to people or their children on the spectrum.

This has been lurking in the back of my mind since I was 16 and my file was "reopened" back in '06 once again slapping me with the asd diagnosis (before it was undecided during childhood and I was left alone). Between the ages of 16-18 I had the system hovering over me with a lot of workers assigned, mandated appointments and they even sent a woman to follow me around at school for "support". It was a nightmare.

 

[laurag9g9g9]

I fear thinking about things i fear for fear i would attract that very thing i fear. Dream big my friend.

 

[Hurting89]

I think your concern is valid. I've spent some time in "the padded section," as have a few others here. However, it had nothing to do with my AS. It was because of other issues. You're an adult capable of making your own intelligent decisions, so you do not have to consent to anything you do not want to. When I was diagnosed they wanted me to engage in counseling, take some meds, etc. I thanked them, but declined since I was not interested in having someone make decisions for me or root around in my head. Such therapy is excellent for those that feel they need it; I did not feel it was needed for me.

Honestly from what I have experienced (this is mainly my exclusive experience) it's better to stay away from the mental health system or Asperger's organizations than it is to engage with them because things can go very, very bad...

The thought of being thrust back into the system for some reason still haunts me though. It may be a small and even unrealistic possibility but I feel like if I'm not careful and fail to keep up the NT facade it will happen

 

[Datura]

Yes, I have some trepedations about the mental health system too, even though I have been utilizing it extensively lately. I think that part of my recent emotional breakdown was due to trying to attend a dropin program at a local mental hospital. I have only been there once and it gave me the creeps. There was a fenced in couryard with barbed whire around the top, and a balcony with extra high barier that was sloped inward at the top to deter prospective jumeprs (or escapees). The elevator on the main floor looked like is was from the 1920s and had porthole windows that exposed the moving components within. Everything was sterile quiet, and yet somehow dingey. I felt less like I was entering a building and more like I was being swallowed by it. On the two days I decided to go back there I was extremely upset, but am only now realizing the corelation. Though it may not be totally rational (if they didn't detain me when I was suicidal and twitching they won't do it now) I fear being trapped there.

 

[Datura]

What I find most desturbing is that the mental health system is capable of incarcerating people without a fair trial. One is not given the luxery of a lawyer and a jurry of peers, merely the opinion of a doctor as to weather or not you deserve freedom. There is something very wrong with that, and it makes me feel uneasy about getting too deep into the system.

 

[Sass]

My husband gets very worked up about the fact that my being autistic is a matter of record. Because I don't use any medical/psych services I don't have the same worry, although it's unlikely I'll get citizenship here in Australia because of it.

 

[Crossbreed]

This is something I have always feared but have never admitted to anyone (ever) the fear that the Asperger's diagnosis could subject me to control by the "system". I used to fear being thrown into an institution or group home and having my every right taken away from me subjecting me to me controlled by a caregiver and the Mental Health system.

Asperger's, by definition, has no cognitive deficits. A mentally incompetent person (that requires the type of institutionalization that you fear) has severe cognitive deficits. In my (nonverbal, 21yo) daughter's case, she is content with the level of care/boundaries that are appropriate for an 18 month old.

My (verbal, 28yo) son wants more autonomy, but would squander his grocery money on gambling & video games, so he lives in a supervised apartment, with some supports in place, but he is free to come and go as he pleases. (I am not sure where you live, but the rule here is to live with the least restrictions necessary.)

I get a disability pension, but I am considered to be competent enough to co-manage a family (with my wife), being a legal guardian for our daughter, with two minor sons still at home. (And I see a counselor for my social klutziness.)

The only other reason that you could be institutionalized is if you had a co-morbid condition that would significantly risk harming yourself and/or others. Being twice exceptional (in turn-of-the-millennium Wisconsin), I've dodged that misdiagnosis bullet...!

 

[Crossbreed]

What I find most desturbing is that the mental health system is capable of incarcerating people without a fair trial. One is not given the luxery of a lawyer and a jurry of peers, merely the opinion of a doctor as to weather or not you deserve freedom. There is something very wrong with that, and it makes me feel uneasy about getting too deep into the system.

There was a court proceeding in my daughter's case, but it was a formality. She was oblivious to the whole process. She did have her own attorney in the matter, called a guardian ad litem, with whom we were on good terms.

(IIRC, a "jury of peers" is only an option in a criminal case...)

 

[Suzanne]

Not me personally, as it was actually the opposite with me; I tried in vain, when I was much younger, to get noticed that I needed help ( never knew I had aspergers), but because I dress decently and am clean, I was condemned out right ie tons of comparison and yet, ironically, those who where going to this walk in centre, COULD go in and on their own, but not me; it took courage to even get there for an interview; chronic social phobia.

But, I can fully understand why you would feel this horrible fear, because it is true, that "professionals" do like to force peoples right away.

I used to have a big fear with police and that was because father, who was abusing me, used to threaten that if I told on him, the police would arrest me and put me in prison!

But if anything, I fear fear itself. It seems that my whole life is full of fear, in many respects and would love to throw that off!

Oh and the only reason I want a formal diagnosis, because people respect that more!

 

[wanderer03]

This is something I have always feared but have never admitted to anyone (ever) the fear that the Asperger's diagnosis could subject me to control by the "system". I used to fear being thrown into an institution or group home and having my every right taken away from me subjecting me to me controlled by a caregiver and the Mental Health system. This may be a stupid fear but i have read stories of this happening to people or their children on the spectrum.

This has been lurking in the back of my mind since I was 16 and my file was "reopened" back in '06 once again slapping me with the asd diagnosis (before it was undecided during childhood and I was left alone). Between the ages of 16-18 I had the system hovering over me with a lot of workers assigned, mandated appointments and they even sent a woman to follow me around at school for "support". It was a nightmare.

Your fear is not stupid, lets clear the air of that right now. [emoji6]
It's actually quite reasonable but rest assured, it is extremely difficult for you to be stripped of your independence. You basically have to be a clear danger to yourself or others.

 

[Judge]

It's perfectly understandable to have such concerns and worries haunting you like that. However I think it's worth noting that those are experiences you had as a minor rather than as an adult.

Assuming you are subject to US laws, as time goes on the rights of those who may or may not be incapacitated in some way are on the increase rather than on the decline. Even in the event that someone else has your power of attorney, their ability to control your adult life and property is extremely limited compared to the distant past. Even more so depending on the state you may reside in.

Then consider recent legislation of health care laws and some of their implications. The DSM-V doesn't really make things easier for those seeking a diagnosis for forms of autism. It makes it more difficult by design, IMO. Government deliberately crafting ways to limit your health care...not to really expand it. In essence the system fundamentally doesn't want the expense to pay for someone to protect you from yourself apart from civil liberties considerations and implications.

As a minor it can be a scary predicament to be in. As an adult, not so much. Assuming of course you reside in the US.

If anything, you must try not to dwell on the past, as it isn't likely to dictate your future.

 

[Hurting89]

It's perfectly understandable to have such concerns and worries haunting you like that. However I think it's worth noting that those are experiences you had as a minor rather than as an adult.

Assuming you are subject to US laws, as time goes on the rights of those who may or may not be incapacitated in some way are on the increase rather than on the decline. Even in the event that someone else has your power of attorney, their ability to control your adult life and property is extremely limited compared to the distant past. Even more so depending on the state you may reside in.

Then consider recent legislation of health care laws and some of their implications. The DSM-V doesn't really make things easier for those seeking a diagnosis for forms of autism. It makes it more difficult by design, IMO. Government deliberately crafting ways to limit your health care...not to really expand it. In essence the system fundamentally doesn't want the expense to pay for someone to protect you from yourself apart from civil liberties considerations and implications.

As a minor it can be a scary predicament to be in. As an adult, not so much. Assuming of course you reside in the US.

If anything, you must try not to dwell on the past, as it isn't likely to dictate your future.

I'm from Canada, the laws are not the same.

 

[Judge]

I'm from Canada, the laws are not the same.

No, they are not. That's why I have to qualify such issues by jurisdiction from the outset. Unfortunately neither your spelling or profile made your nationality clear. I try to check to avoid such critical differences...but it's not foolproof.

 

[paloftoon]

Honestly from what I have experienced (this is mainly my exclusive experience) it's better to stay away from the mental health system or Asperger's organizations than it is to engage with them because things can go very, very bad...

. . .

I wouldn't say avoid all Asperger's organizations at all. I do agree that most are invested in the system, so if you aren't sure, ask on here, because someone is bound to know something else otherwise. Anything related to "ASAN" which stands for "Autistic Self-Advocacy Network" has been continually trying to fight issues that prevent the system from wrongfully taking advantage of people like us and unnecessarily putting us in the system. "Grassier root" organizations like this need all the help they can get particularly because that is the level that they are at right now, "grass." http://autisticadvocacy.org/

 

[David Larson]

You know, I've worried about a lot of things but getting systematized because of ASD isn't one of them. As long as you don't give any indication whatsoever that you have even the most remote thought about hurting yourself or others, you're not a potential legal liability for a mandated reporter so they could give a crap less about your problems.

Although I did recently almost get committed because I told a doctor that I have little regard for human life. I had to hustle at maximum capacity to talk my way out of that one, that statement plus my flat affect (among other Aspie qualities) made her think I was a psychopath. So yeah, I guess under the right circumstances ASD could be a contributing factor to getting locked up in macaroni-picture-jail.

 

[Crossbreed]

Also in Canada, Hurting89 Won't be going for any sort of evaluation in my own province. Have so far avoided any mention of ASD to any government agencies of any sort. Don't have any sort of official diagnosis for good reason, autism still falls under the classification of 'mental illness/disability' here.

If I'd been diagnosed early on, it's likely something similar would have happened to me as well. Here people who 'stim' involuntarily and speak abnormally are placed in group homes and rarely seen in public, except on disabled buses going from place to place. Often they are 'found' work in factories and on farms...

That sounds like poor forethought. Doesn't Canada recognize the potential for contribution found at the Aspergers end of the spectrum...?

 

[Hurting89]

Also in Canada, Hurting89 Won't be going for any sort of evaluation in my own province. Have so far avoided any mention of ASD to any government agencies of any sort. Don't have any sort of official diagnosis for good reason, autism still falls under the classification of 'mental illness/disability' here.

If I'd been diagnosed early on, it's likely something similar would have happened to me as well. Here people who 'stim' involuntarily and speak abnormally are placed in group homes and rarely seen in public, except on disabled buses going from place to place. Often they are 'found' work in factories and on farms.

Would certainly avoid organizations like 'Autism speaks' in Canada and would also be wary of any government organizations that might offer help. People with autism in Canada are considered 'disabled' in most provinces, and although the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to all, the disabled can be (under certain circumstances) considered legal wards of the 'Health' System, depending on the severity of their issues, both physical and mental. Psychiatrists and social workers and GP's can make decisions regarding their care, after they have been officially accessed. I understand your fear at the possibility of losing your autonomy. It's one of the reasons I've not pursued diagnosis.

Thank you for your reply, it validates everything I have ever felt or experienced that I thought were stupid paranoid thoughts. Yes they consider it a "mental illness and disability" here and if you you're not good at disguising your symptoms and functioning in society you end up in a group home or on a boatload of pills. I was suggested, almost forced to take pills for symptoms I did not even have. They assumed because I had the Asperger's diagnosis I must also have anxiety, violent outbursts ect. To go with it (I definitely did not) and needed to be tranquilized on medications.

 

[Hurting89]

That sounds like poor forethought. Doesn't Canada recognize the potential for contribution found at the Aspergers end of the spectrum...?

No! The Canadian government considers Asperger's such a burden and a bother they kick people out of the country who immigrated here if their child is diagnosed with it. There are countless stories of this happening to people, most notably an American professor who moved to Canada to teach and as soon as his son was diagnosed with Asperger's they were issued a letter for their family to leave country and return home (his story is on youtube, I will link it later).

 

[wanderer03]

The US doesn't even recognize that aspies can have a lot to contribute

 

[Crossbreed]

Are you saying that in Australia they can deny you citizenship because of your autism? I've never heard of such a thing before. It's not like it's a contagious disease like Ebola. Please clarify, as this is a bit disturbing.

I await her answer, too, but it's very hereditary...