• Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Autism researchers discover genetic 'Rosetta Stone'

AGXStarseed

Well-Known Member
(Not written by me)

Opposing defects in a single neuronal protein lead either to epilepsy in infancy or to autism


Distinct sets of genetic defects in a single neuronal protein can lead either to infantile epilepsy or to autism spectrum disorders (ASDs), depending on whether the respective mutations boost the protein's function or sabotage it, according to a new study by UC San Francisco researchers. Tracing how these particular genetic defects lead to more general changes in brain function could unlock fundamental mysteries about how events early in brain development lead to autism, the authors say.

"The genetics of neuropsychiatric disease is often complicated, but here we have a single gene in which specific mutations can cause either infantile seizures or autism in a consistent and predictable manner," said Stephan Sanders, MD, PhD, an assistant professor of psychiatry at UCSF and member of the UCSF Weill Institute for Neurosciences who is co-senior author of the new study. "This gives us an opportunity to understand both what these disorders have in common and what makes them different."

The findings are a first step towards understanding how different subtle changes in neural function in utero could lead to the development of either a seizure-prone brain or an autistic brain in infancy, the authors say. The study also further implicates the gene responsible for these changes -- called SCN2A -- as the single human gene with the strongest evidence for a causal role in driving ASDs.

Matthew W. State, MD, PhD, the Oberndorf Family Distinguished Professor and chair of psychiatry at UCSF, first discovered the link between autism and SCN2A. According to State, who was not directly involved with the new study: "In autism research, understanding why mutations in a single gene can lead not only to ASDs, but to a wide range of other neurodevelopment disorders has emerged as a central question for the field. This new work provides critical clues that begin to unravel this mystery and could serve as a molecular 'Rosetta Stone' to illuminate autism pathology."

The study was published online January 26 in Biological Psychiatry.


Genome sequencing points to SCN2A mutations as strongest known genetic drivers of autism

The advent of whole-exome genome sequencing and the amassing of large, well-defined study populations such as the Simons Simplex Collection (SSC) and the research cohorts assembled by the Autism Sequencing Consortium (ASC), have allowed researchers to make tremendous progress in recent years in identifying genetic risk factors for autism, said Sanders: "In the past four years we've gone from not really knowing how to find autism genes to having a long list of mutations linked to the disorder."

As a graduate student and postdoctoral researcher at Yale University working in State's lab, Sanders led collaborations that searched for autism-linked genetic mutations by conducting large whole-exome genomic screens of more than 4,000 autistic children and their families participating in the SSC and ASC consortia. In studies published in 2012, 2014, and 2015, State, Sanders and collaborators found that de novo genetic mutations -- spontaneous mutations not inherited from parents -- play a role in the development of ASDs in at least 20 percent of all cases of autism, many more than previously recognized.

These studies led to the identification of 65 genes with a strong likelihood of contributing to autism when mutated and implicated SCN2A as the human gene with the second strongest evidence for a causal role in driving ASDs. Analyses of additional SCN2A mutations In the current paper, confirm this result and elevate SCN2A to the single strongest case for a genetic driver of ASD.


Autism-associated SCN2A mutations impede signaling in the developing brain

SCN2A was in fact one of the first ASD-associated genes to be discovered. It encodes a sodium channel protein called NaV1.2 that is crucial to neurons' ability to communicate electrically, especially during early brain development.

In addition to its strong association with autism, SCN2A had also previously been implicated in epilepsy. When Sanders came to UCSF in 2015, he began collaborating with neurophysiologist Kevin Bender, PhD, an assistant professor of neurology and co-senior author of the study, to examine the mechanisms of how mutations SCN2A alter neuronal function to lead to these two different diseases.

"Fortunately, the function of sodium channels is easy to test in the lab," said Bender, who is also a member of UCSF's Center for Integrative Neuroscience, Kavli Institute for Fundamental Neuroscience, and Weill Institute for Neurosciences. "Often you see mutations that are associated with a disease but you're not really sure what the gene is supposed to do or how the mutations change its function. But neuroscientists have been studying sodium channels since the 1950s - the experiments are extremely clear."

Bender's team measured how 12 SCN2A mutations observed in children with ASD affected the electrical properties of NaV1.2 channels in cultured human cells in the lab. As predicted, based on the mutations' location on the protein, all 12 reduced the function of the sodium channel, but in a variety of different ways, ranging from stopping the channel from being made at all to simply blocking the pore through which sodium needs to flow for the channel to function.

The researchers used this data to inform computer models of how the various channel mutations seen in children with ASD -- as well as previously studied mutations seen in babies with infantile seizures -- would impact the signaling properties of brain cells. They found that unlike mutations observed in patients with infantile seizures, which made model neurons more excitable, the mutations seen in children with ASD made it much harder for model neurons to send electrical signals.

"It was remarkable to see how consistently neuronal function was disrupted by these different mutations seen in patients with autism," said Roy Ben-Shalom, PhD, a post-doctoral researcher in the Bender lab who was lead author on the new paper. "The mutations all affected the channel in slightly different ways, but they ended up affecting neurons in almost exactly the same way."

Additional simulations of the effects of NaV1.2 defects on immature versus mature neurons indicated that autism-associated mutations would only have a major impact in the developing brain -- since neurons transition away from relying on NaV1.2 channels as they mature -- a finding consistent with the idea that the neurological changes that trigger in autism occur early in the womb or before one year of age, as previously proposed by Bender, Sanders and colleagues.


SCN2A defects could be key to unlocking autism's mysteries

This study represents a first step in understanding how SCN2A mutations lead to autism and developmental delay, which the authors hope will both be immediately helpful to the families of patients with these mutations and also lead to better understanding of the mechanisms of ASD more generally.

"These findings solidify SCN2A's status as one of the most important genes in autism," Bender said. "They give us a place to start exploring exactly how changes in early brain development lead to this condition."

A key next step, the researchers say, is understanding whether the severity of autism and developmental delay can be predicted by the specific SCN2A mutation a patient has, research that will require close collaboration between scientists and families affected by these mutations. An active SCN2A patient group is helping to coordinate this via the website http://www.scn2a.org in collaboration with SFARI, which provided major funding for the new study (SFARI 362242) alongside grants from the US National Institutes of Health (NINDS, NIMH).

The new study is a perfect example of the power of the cross-disciplinary mindset of the new UCSF Weill Institute for Neuroscience, Sanders said: "Kevin and I came at this question from completely different angles - from genetics and from neurophysiology. When you bring people together from different backgrounds, as the Weill Institute does, you end up finding stories like this: a result as clear as night and day, but one we never would have seen without this collaboration."

###

Additional authors on the paper were Caroline M. Keeshen and Joon Y. An, PhD, of UCSF, and Kiara N. Berrios of the University of Puerto Rico.


Source: Autism researchers discover genetic 'Rosetta Stone'
 
i have both classic autism and developed life long grand mal epilepsy around 2 years of age,its interesting to know that one gene could be causing this.
 
I have a genetic duplication on the short arm of Chrom 6. THAT was once thought to be associated, too. CNV databases list it still. Anything they ever find in autisitic people will be the cause.
 
Well since it is genetic, it's best to root out the problem. I had the appropriate surgery done. If we all commit to the same goal, we can eradicate this.
 
Well since it is genetic, it's best to root out the problem. I had the appropriate surgery done. If we all commit to the same goal, we can eradicate this.

I would not get rid of my Asperger's; it's part of me and I consider it my superpower. I would not be me without it.
 
SnThMaxx95 said:

Well since it is genetic, it's best to root out the problem. I had the appropriate surgery done. If we all commit to the same goal, we can eradicate this.


What surgery?
 
Well since it is genetic, it's best to root out the problem. I had the appropriate surgery done. If we all commit to the same goal, we can eradicate this.

You're either a somewhat dickish troll, or you REALLY don't know your audience. Do you have any idea what kind of existence that would damn us to?

Autism doesn't need a "cure," it needs a catalyst! The world would be a much better place if everyone were (at least somewhat) autistic. Can't have wars or a runaway Military-Industrial Complex if people are biologically incapable of a mob mentality, just for starters!
 
Last edited:
Well since it is genetic, it's best to root out the problem. I had the appropriate surgery done. If we all commit to the same goal, we can eradicate this.

Careful - not everyone wants to be 'cured' as not everyone sees it as a problem, so you might offend some people by saying that.
 
Well since it is genetic, it's best to root out the problem. I had the appropriate surgery done. If we all commit to the same goal, we can eradicate this.

"The findings are a first step towards understanding how different subtle changes in neural function in utero could lead to the development of either a seizure-prone brain or an autistic brain in infancy, the authors say."

So, are you saying you used to have seizures, but
had surgery to correct/reduce/eliminate that?

Or what are you saying?

'we can eradicate this' is not specific.
 
You really cannot get rid of autism now if you understand autism specific genes to look for you might somehow be able to fix those genes early in a baby and change those jeansor I don't really know I'm notvery good at thisI never was good itscience or anythingand I don't really remember much about what I learned in biology but that would be more likely then someone older that has developed their personality with autism somehow getting rid of it at that point because then it's removing your personality and then again if you were a baby and had the gene changed or removed to eliminate the autism in the child completely before they developed a personality what would that do to them then if they hadn't really developed their personality yet what kind of personality would they then have a baby same kind of personality as any normal Nero typical person? or would they be devoid of personality kind of? I don't know if you can be devoid of personality except to be psychopath, but I mean, what does everybody here think about that? We all have really logical brains and we think outside the boxes also so given that what would you say is the answer theoretically there's really no answer to that because nobody's ever tried that so there is no answer yet but what does everybody think that would look like if that happens from the most logical point we can come up with the most reasonable points we could come up with even if you have science or anatomy or psychology backgrounds use that I'm just so curious I mean it's very scary to think that one could possibly come to that where they might actually know something deeper like the jeans and know where it starts and possibly be able to fix the mutation one day down the road so that that mutation doesn't happen or if there's no way to stop the mutation then once you've had the baby you might be able to go through and fix the mutation I don't know if that's possible but I mean with the way technology is going right now if we've gotten to where we can pinpoint down that it is a mutation and what mutation. who's to say that we won't get to the point where we can fix that?
I mean there's no saying necessarily that it could be fixed but if they can pinpoint it down to knowing what gene and if it is or isn't a mutation they might be able to fix that and keep that mutation from happening and then the person with autism may not have issues although who's to say that it can be fixed but I mean think about it, if they could know early on enough to be able to tell before the mother had a baby that this mutation is going on and then be able to do something that changes the mutation and keeps it from mutating or stops the mutation then they might be normal? Like a euro typical person? That's a question there not a rhetorical . But if that happened what would that look like to the baby when it was born with it then no longer develop too literal of a mind would be the normal amount of literal would it be able to understand volume levels or octave levels and talk with a normal volume? Would they then not talk about specifics and have one topic that they obsess over what day be able to deal with sensory issues not having issues there with two louder to Ralph's for too close to them but they be able to normally be around people without having fear of people what they laugh at jokes that everyone thinks you're funny but the artistic would not find any really don't understand it ? Would all of these autistic things the opposite ? I mean if those behaviors were going to develop artistically and the person was going to be extremely literal or extremely loud or not understand things or not have good common sense or have depth perception issues or be clumsy or not court needed or be scared of social interaction or having ascites or have compulsive obsessions and then you took that away from them what would that look like? Would they be like a vegetable, personality wise? it's the best analogy I can come up with. I mean once you've developed yourself your personality and you take that away it's kind of stupid to think that somebody would want to take that away you'd almost be like a Stepford person void of any personality and be very robotic and again the best analogy I can come up with is a vegetable personality wise . It's in my mind much like that that would be like dehumanizing somebody in from a lot of sci-fi TV that I watch they would just be like a zombie pay would be living but they would just be vegetable state just not care about life just kind of going about very emotionless and psychopathic type no carrying no empathy no feelings and that would be stupid to make a person do that to be very inhumane to make a person live like that and at that point but they know they're doing that thing with no emotions I'm just depressed and don't care and they're trapped in these non-emotions and wish that they could feel something other than nothing or what they not know and just be existing not knowing that there lifeless humans just existing in the world or could you like a previously inhere question turn the mutation around to where they have the personality of a narrow typical but it just doesn't sound logical like something one could do unless you caught it early enough but even then with that because all of this possibility even if you caught it early enough in the baby? I mean anybody that wants to change being autistic , I get it there are days when it doesn't feel fair why can't I drive? Why can't I hold more hours at work? Why do I have to have trouble with money? Why am I so clumsy? I look at people at my job the YMCA and I see it's a gym where people exercise and people take dance classes and Zumba classes and kickboxing classes and I can't do any of that. I took cheerleadingwhen I was 12 and I feel Pretty miserably because he was not coordinatedandthey recorded some of themovesand let me do them at home just wasn't coordinated and he couldn't keep up fast enough. and then of coursedancing in front ofparentsI would freeze upand you can't do that when you're in a competition you'll kill it for your whole team. them then of course my younger sister floored actually and it wasn't fairto my mind. friend withdyslexia who works in the hospitaland I wonder every dayhow did she get in that hospital profession withdyslexia?You cannot mess up medicines are you will give someone the wrong stufffor you cannot write down the wrong medicineto give to a patientbecause they will go to the pharmacist and get the wrong medicineall it takes is one letter out of place and somebody might get the wrong medication and die. But she somehow makes it. And I question how is this fair? it's not. And I have to realize there are things I can do I have to be happy for that and if I took away who I was that would suck because again I go back to those questions if you took away who I was would I be void of person if you will like a vegetable, emotion/personality wise? that would really suck. I love how they can pinpoint down certain things because ASD because they can treat people better but again I wouldn't want to get rid of it unless there was a way to change it from autism to Neuro typical. but if it would make us void of person, if you will, then I'd rather keep it.
 
In order to read this I will have to punctuate it and separate it into
paragraphs. The wall of text is too much for me.


QUOTE
You really cannot get rid of autism. Now, if you understand autism specific genes to look for you might somehow be able to fix those genes early in a baby and change those jeans or... I don't really know.

I'm not very good at this. I never was good at science or anything and I don't really remember much about what I learned in biology, but that would be more likely than someone older that has developed their personality with autism. somehow getting rid of it at that point because then it's removing your personality and then again if you were a baby and had the gene changed or removed to eliminate the autism in the child completely before they developed a personality--- What would that do to them then if they hadn't really developed their personality yet? What kind of personality would they then have a baby same kind of personality as any normal Nero typical person? Or would they be devoid of personality, kind of?

I don't know if you can be devoid of personality except to be psychopath, but I mean, what does everybody here think about that? We all have really logical brains and we think outside the boxes also, so given that, what would you say is the answer theoretically?

There's really no answer to that because nobody's ever tried that. So there is no answer yet, but what does everybody think that would look like if that happens from the most logical point we can come up with the most reasonable points we could come up with even if you have science or anatomy or psychology backgrounds use that. I'm just so curious.

I mean it's very scary to think that one could possibly come to that where they might actually know something deeper like the jeans and know where it starts and possibly be able to fix the mutation one day down the road so that that mutation doesn't happen. Or if there's no way to stop the mutation then once you've had the baby you might be able to go through and fix the mutation.

I don't know if that's possible, but I mean with the way technology is going right now if we've gotten to where we can pinpoint down that it is a mutation and what mutation. Who's to say that we won't get to the point where we can fix that?

I mean there's no saying, necessarily, that it could be fixed, but if they can pinpoint it down to knowing what gene and if it is or isn't a mutation they might be able to fix that and keep that mutation from happening and then the person with autism may not have issues, although who's to say that it can be fixed?--- but I mean think about it: if they could know early on enough to be able to tell before the mother had a baby that this mutation is going on and then be able to do something that changes the mutation and keeps it from mutating or stops the mutation then they might be normal? Like a euro typical person?

That's a question there not a rhetorical . But if that happened what would that look like to the baby when it was born with it then no longer develop too literal of a mind would be the normal amount of literal? Would it be able to understand volume levels or octave levels and talk with a normal volume? Would they then not talk about specifics and have one topic that they obsess over what day be able to deal with sensory issues not having issues there with two louder to Ralph's for too close to them but they be able to normally be around people without having fear of people what they laugh at jokes that everyone thinks you're funny but the artistic would not find any. Really don't understand it ?

Would all of these autistic things the opposite ? I mean if those behaviors were going to develop artistically and the person was going to be extremely literal or extremely loud or not understand things or not have good common sense or have depth perception issues or be clumsy or not court needed or be scared of social interaction or having ascites or have compulsive obsessions and then you took that away from them what would that look like?

Would they be like a vegetable, personality wise? It's the best analogy I can come up with. I mean once you've developed yourself, your personality and you--- take that away it's kind of stupid to think that somebody would want to take that away you'd almost be like a Stepford person void of any personality and be very robotic and again the best analogy I can come up with is a vegetable personality wise .

It's in my mind much like that that would be like dehumanizing somebody in from a lot of sci-fi TV that I watch they would just be like a zombie pay would be living but they would just be vegetable state just not care about life just kind of going about very emotionless and psychopathic type no carrying no empathy no feelings and that would be stupid to make a person do that to be very inhumane to make a person live like that and at that point but they know they're doing that thing with no emotions I'm just depressed and don't care and they're trapped in these non-emotions and wish that they could feel something other than nothing or what they not know and just be existing not knowing that there lifeless humans just existing in the world or could you like a previously inhere question turn the mutation around to where they have the personality of a narrow typical but it just doesn't sound logical like something one could do unless you caught it early enough but even then with that because all of this possibility even if you caught it early enough in the baby?

I mean anybody that wants to change being autistic , I get it there are days when it doesn't feel fair: Why can't I drive? Why can't I hold more hours at work? Why do I have to have trouble with money? Why am I so clumsy? I look at people at my job the YMCA and I see it's a gym where people exercise and people take dance classes and Zumba classes and kickboxing classes and I can't do any of that.

I took cheerleading when I was 12 and I feel Pretty miserably because he was not coordinated and they recorded some of the moves and let me do them at home. Just wasn't coordinated and he couldn't keep up fast enough.

And then of course dancing in front of parents... I would freeze up and you can't do that when you're in a competition. You'll kill it for your whole team/them. Then of course, my younger sister floored actually and it wasn't fair to my mind. friend with dyslexia who works in the hospital and I wonder every day how did she get in that hospital profession with dyslexia? You cannot mess up medicines are you will give someone the wrong stuff, for you cannot write down the wrong medicine to give to a patient because they will go to the pharmacist and get the wrong medicine. All it takes is one letter out of place and somebody might get the wrong medication and die. But she somehow makes it.

And I question how is this fair? It's not.

And I have to realize there are things I can do. I have to be happy for that and if I took away (who I was)--- that would suck because again I go back to those questions. If you took away who I was, would I be void of person, if you will, like a vegetable, emotion/personality wise? That would really suck.

I love how they can pinpoint down certain things because ASD because they can treat people better, but again, I wouldn't want to get rid of it unless there was a way to change it from autism to Neuro typical. But if it would make us void of person, if you will, then I'd rather keep it.
END QUOTE
 
Find it interesting that they have identified a specific area of mutation from sodium channels, on the SCNA2A. So they know that a specific gene among many others that has been identified, apparently associated with seizures, epilepsy, schizophrenia, autism, and intellectual disability, many of which are thought to develop in utero.

A great deal of research has been done in the last five years in these areas to pinpoint exact locations of restricted/unrestricted sodium pathways to these genes, which can block completely or partially or completely open. It's good to know that this research is ongoing, now that they know somewhat where, they might search for what actually causes gene mutation in the first place. Many of which are naturally occurring, related to cell division and environment. And which they know generally not a great deal about.

Although it would be expected that most mutations would lead to a loss of function, it is possible that a new and important function could result from the mutation. In these cases, the mutation creates a new allele that is associated with a new function. Any hetero-zygote containing the new allele along with the original wild type allele will express the new allele. Genetically this will define the mutation as a dominant. This class of mutations are called gain-of-function mutations.

Which personally is what I inherited or mutated to, a gain of function.
 
Last edited:
Find it interesting that they have identified a specific area of mutation from sodium channels, on the SCNA2A. So they know that a specific gene among many others that has been identified, apparently associated with seizures, epilepsy, schizophrenia, autism, and intellectual disability, many of which are thought to develop in utero.

A great deal of research has been done in the last five years in these areas to pinpoint exact locations of restricted/unrestricted sodium pathways to these genes, which can block completely or partially or completely open. It's good to know that this research is ongoing, now that they know somewhat where, they might search for what actually causes gene mutation in the first place. Many of which are naturally occurring, related to cell division and environment. And which they know generally not a great deal about.

Although it would be expected that most mutations would lead to a loss of function, it is possible that a new and important function could result from the mutation. In these cases, the mutation creates a new allele that is associated with a new function. Any hetero-zygote containing the new allele along with the original wild type allele will express the new allele. Genetically this will define the mutation as a dominant. This class of mutations are called gain-of-function mutations.

Which personally is what I inherited or mutated to, a gain of function.
I can't properly express how happy I am to read a response with this level of understanding of medical genetics, cell biology and medical physiology:D
 
This class of mutations are called gain-of-function mutations.

Which personally is what I inherited or mutated to, a gain of function.

I agree. It's like what they discovered about sickle cell disease. If someone gets one copy, they have increased resistance to malaria. The folks who get two copies are the ones who become sick from it.

But the overall population, when people with one copy predominate, are healthier in an malarial environment.
 

New Threads

Top Bottom