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Asperger's and Misanthropy

tdrfreebird

Well-Known Member
I've been wondering lately if there is any correlation between Asperger's and misanthropy, or is it just me?
Maybe it's just my experiences and having any optimism about people gradually being beaten out of me at an early age. There are a lot of fake people out there, and from being on this site just a few days, I can already tell people on the spectrum have a hard time figuring out why everyone can't be honest, genuine and straight forward (Within reason. Sometimes honestly isn't the best policy). And not only that, but I'm sure many of us have been picked on for how we are, are unable to form relationships, been taken advantage of, etc., and that fosters resentment and hate.

Am I alone in this, or does has anyone else notice a correlation?
 
I'm an optimistic misanthrope, if that makes any sense. I don't like people, in general, but when meeting someone new I give them the benefit of doubt.
I'm friendly and polite to everyone I meet, but if someone doesn't return that courtesy I'm quick to dismiss then as not worthy of my time. Unless I need something from them.
 
I've realized that I don't so much dislike, or hate most people, as simply don't enjoy interacting with them. Oh, there are a few I am particularly unfond of, though.
 
I'm at least somewhat misanthropic due to all the bullying I've endured. It's gotten to the point where I will door-slam someone without a second thought, because most people don't deserve second chances. They don't change.
 
I've been wondering lately if there is any correlation between Asperger's and misanthropy, or is it just me?
Maybe it's just my experiences and having any optimism about people gradually being beaten out of me at an early age. There are a lot of fake people out there, and from being on this site just a few days, I can already tell people on the spectrum have a hard time figuring out why everyone can't be honest, genuine and straight forward (Within reason. Sometimes honestly isn't the best policy). And not only that, but I'm sure many of us have been picked on for how we are, are unable to form relationships, been taken advantage of, etc., and that fosters resentment and hate.

Am I alone in this, or does has anyone else notice a correlation?

I agree absolutely, and I have been lucky enough recently to work with an extraordinary individual who has a theory as why this is...

In pyscotherapy, there are many theories as to how the human mind works, how people interact socially, and the like. One of the most well known models of social interaction is that of Ego States. The idea is that we all carry around little versions of our parents, and memories from childhood with us, implicitly, and that these become embedded in the facets of our personalities, colouring all our responses, preferences and attitudes. This is something most people are unaware of - it is accessed intuitively, all of the time.

The individual I mentioned earlier has a different theory about people with Aspergers, and it makes an awful lot of sense, at least to me, and the few others who are aware of it at present. The theory is that the Asperger's mind doesn't record these experiences implicitly, so they never become internalised; part of our intuitive behaviour. We can recall childhood experiences, and the personalities of our parents, of course, but only as explicit memories. In other words, we recall them the same way we recall everything - on a purely intellectual level.

This idea has huge implications when you apply it to the Ego State model - it's almost as if there is no 'Parent' or 'Child' state. We exist entirely in the here and now - the 'Adult' State. In NTs, this is the state most associated with professional/work relationships: Business-like, clear, honest and to the point.

Of course, the NT mind is completely unaware of this, and is usually unaware of how their interactions are coloured by the NT 'Child and Parent' voices and expectations... So - we have terrible difficulty understanding each other, but people who share this neurological difference get on much better.

It's an interesting observation, but the implications for improving NT/Asperger communication (especially in the therapeutic psychology field) are enormous.
 
@Chris Russell Thank you for sharing this theory, it's incredibly interesting and makes a lot of sense to me. I've been told, ever since I was a child, that I had a very mature approach to life, intellectually, and that my thought process was way "older" than my biological age. Something to ponder!
 
@Chris Russell Thank you for sharing this theory, it's incredibly interesting and makes a lot of sense to me. I've been told, ever since I was a child, that I had a very mature approach to life, intellectually, and that my thought process was way "older" than my biological age. Something to ponder!

Yeah - the more 'serious nature' and (for kids) making acquaintances of people older than your peers are well-known characteristics of Aspergers. The other aspect of this theory is that without the typical Parent and Child ego states, it's impossible for us to engage in all the usual mind games that NTs play. This might be why such otherwise intelligent people are so vulnerable to bullying and other forms of social manipulation...
 
Maybe we are looking at all this too deeply. Most animals out there and also Humans exclude and often/usually attack those who are different. I read about horses ganging up on a mule. Ranchers & "horse people" [it said in the story/article] are aware of how vicious a herd can be toward a horse that is different or hurt or to a mule or donkey in the same pastures. Sharks are all swimming together but if one gets hurt the others attack almost instantly. For all kinds of animals and for Humans it is hard-wired as a means of survival and to end suffering quickly.

I know that when I got a new job in a new place I was accepted initially but quickly-- in weeks or months-- I began to be attacked in various ways. Physical attack is forbidden by law and employers immediately fire anyone physically harming anyone else so most of us are safe from physical assault; but there are an infinite number of ways to attack a person by social means.

Isolation works very well between/among NT's. As an Aspie I recognized that effort and laughed. It was "Bro Fox, don't throw me into the brier patch." [Quote from a rabbit in a Disney movie: I think the name of the movie was "Song of the South." In the 1940's.] Sometimes the slights and hate [lies told about me] were serious and I persevered by slipping into a shell that might be "I do not like these people. If we were not all at this job we would never get along anyway or have any interest in each other. When I go home at night I am in my own world; when I leave this job it will be over and none of us will remember or care, ever again. Being in this job is only about the paycheck."

HFA's are different. We are a tiny minority. It is necessary for us to adjust and find ways to cope with all the rest of the people. It is never easy.

Note that I had no idea I was an Aspie/HFA until after I retired. Life was just very difficult. People were mostly difficult to deal with. I found the word "Aspie" in something written somewhere and looked it up to see what was being talked about. And found all the answers I had been in search of during all my life.
 
I have a theory that this is simply a result of changing times...in 2017, it's every man for himself (more or less). People are less kind, less genuine....making it easier to get frustrated, sad or mad with them, and develop anthropic tendencies, but I don't believe we were all born that way...I never used to be anthropic, but coming into my late 20s, I'm definitely getting there.

I've been wondering lately if there is any correlation between Asperger's and misanthropy, or is it just me?
Maybe it's just my experiences and having any optimism about people gradually being beaten out of me at an early age. There are a lot of fake people out there, and from being on this site just a few days, I can already tell people on the spectrum have a hard time figuring out why everyone can't be honest, genuine and straight forward (Within reason. Sometimes honestly isn't the best policy). And not only that, but I'm sure many of us have been picked on for how we are, are unable to form relationships, been taken advantage of, etc., and that fosters resentment and hate.

Am I alone in this, or does has anyone else notice a correlation?
 
I have a theory that this is simply a result of changing times...in 2017, it's every man for himself (more or less). People are less kind, less genuine....making it easier to get frustrated, sad or mad with them, and develop anthropic tendencies, but I don't believe we were all born that way...I never used to be anthropic, but coming into my late 20s, I'm definitely getting there.

That's a good point. The rise of technology and social media has put a barrier between people, NT or Aspie/Autie. Being behind a computer screen, it makes it easier for people to be horrible to one another.
But then again, people didn't have the understanding of the spectrum 10 years ago that they do now.
 
I'm really starting to feel this a lot these days. People who I thought were my allies turn out to be my enemies in how they stand against my desires to be left alone and live my life. Too often people try to help me when I tell them I don't need or want their help. A group of people particularly bad about this are social justice warriors. It's hard for me to have good faith in humanity when I'm on edge of anything I say being taken out of context and me being called a bad person in some shape or form. Just because they say it doesn't make it true but it's still annoying. I find being lonely easier than the stress and energy that comes with the current Internet culture.
 
I am in sad spot because I LOVE PEOPLE but they do not like me :-(
I read somewhere that people with PDD are like this. We are always wanting to be liked and like people and get kicked around because we are not likeable. But I still like people . I watch them at Wal Mart in line and once in a while I feel like I am about to pass out watching how truly astonishing people are. That maybe a stupid trope or meme from the past, but it never gets old to watch a human move and flex and do what they are doing naturally, not even knowing they are killingme over here.
Does that even MAKE SENSE>????
 
Maybe we are looking at all this too deeply. Most animals out there and also Humans exclude and often/usually attack those who are different. I read about horses ganging up on a mule. Ranchers & "horse people" [it said in the story/article] are aware of how vicious a herd can be toward a horse that is different or hurt or to a mule or donkey in the same pastures. Sharks are all swimming together but if one gets hurt the others attack almost instantly. For all kinds of animals and for Humans it is hard-wired as a means of survival and to end suffering quickly.

I know that when I got a new job in a new place I was accepted initially but quickly-- in weeks or months-- I began to be attacked in various ways. Physical attack is forbidden by law and employers immediately fire anyone physically harming anyone else so most of us are safe from physical assault; but there are an infinite number of ways to attack a person by social means.

Isolation works very well between/among NT's. As an Aspie I recognized that effort and laughed. It was "Bro Fox, don't throw me into the brier patch." [Quote from a rabbit in a Disney movie: I think the name of the movie was "Song of the South." In the 1940's.] Sometimes the slights and hate [lies told about me] were serious and I persevered by slipping into a shell that might be "I do not like these people. If we were not all at this job we would never get along anyway or have any interest in each other. When I go home at night I am in my own world; when I leave this job it will be over and none of us will remember or care, ever again. Being in this job is only about the paycheck."

HFA's are different. We are a tiny minority. It is necessary for us to adjust and find ways to cope with all the rest of the people. It is never easy.

Note that I had no idea I was an Aspie/HFA until after I retired. Life was just very difficult. People were mostly difficult to deal with. I found the word "Aspie" in something written somewhere and looked it up to see what was being talked about. And found all the answers I had been in search of during all my life.

So true about how workplace hostilities play out. I work in a very blue collar, very social environment that is all male. Its intermediate school all over again. But, Im much meaner than I was at 13, and excell at mind games. And at my age, nearly all these guys are kids to me. I just tell them to f**k off to their faces.
 
The theory is that the Asperger's mind doesn't record these experiences implicitly, so they never become internalised; part of our intuitive behaviour. We can recall childhood experiences, and the personalities of our parents, of course, but only as explicit memories. In other words, we recall them the same way we recall everything - on a purely intellectual level.

The soft sciences are wonderful; one can get away with saying just about anything, as long as it sounds good.

Aren't I awful?

Slightly more seriously...I find that there are problems with your friend's theory. The first, and perhaps most important, is that ASD is such a nebulous condition, to speak of an "Asperger's mind" is not something I would be inclined to do; ASD seems to present so differently, and it's such a subjective experience, that a monolithic "mind" seems unlikely. This may not be quite correct, but it's catchy, and more importantly, true (cheeky!): my rule of thumb is that I get wary when someone uses the singular to describe the plural.

Another issue is that the model of our brain, as presented by your friend, strikes me as not so much difference by degrees as difference by type. I could grant that such a way of (not) processing the past could exist. But if it were generally true, it's such a difference that it might indicate that we have been slightly separated from the rest of humanity. Some in the Autism community already believe that to be the case; I don't. Nor do I want to.

I have to point out, what is proposed in the theory is simply not my experience. When around anger and the threat of violence now, I react very powerfully, in a way that's usually beyond my conscious control, based upon things that happened around a half-century ago! That is a stark, vivid (well, to me) example of my very much having internalised experiences which still have a profound effect upon me. Rest assured there are also examples of a warm and comforting variety.

The notion that we are "others", "freaks" who operate solely in the realm of the intellect is not a notion that I find compelling. Again, could it happen? Sure. But, it ain't me! And going by what I have read in the past, and what I read (sometimes between the lines) here on this forum, it ain't all of us...and it probably is next to none of us. Perhaps it's an issue of awareness. I am not just at times blind to your emotions, I am often blind to my own emotions. So, in the past, not having a diagnosis of ASD, I might very well have described myself as an unemotional, highly rational person. All the issues from my youth have been figured out, I am not bothered by them, thank-you muchly.

I'm a little smarter than that, and I vaguely intuited that there was something wrong with my self-description, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it...

If one was to attempt to construct a theory about about those on the spectrum based on their self-reported experiences, that theory is likely to be flawed. For example: I didn't know what the emotions panic or anxiety were until I was fifty. Was my life being affected by those emotions? Oh, yes it was, very much so. But it wasn't until, when in the midst of a conversation with someone who was pretty sharp, I started to have a panic attack. She said, with no hesitation, "you're having a panic attack." I know immediately she was right, and the scales fell from my eyes.

I became more open to the idea that I am not just an emotional creature, I am a very emotional creature. And sometimes those emotions come from a very deep place, like every other human being. What I find is that those emotions aren't always experienced directly, they often have to be filtered through the intellect so I can not only make sense of them, but so that I can know that I have them. A great deal of trouble in my life has occurred when emotions, dark memories, the unconscious if you will, has acted upon me without going through that intellectual filter. Gee, and not to be repetitive, doesn't that sound like something every other human being goes through!?
 
I dislike most people, I consider myself a misanthrope. I simply do not need them. If there is a correlation between my misanthropy and my Asperger's it would be only that people have mistreated me because of my Asperger's causing me to dislike and mistrust the bulk of humanity.
 
The soft sciences are wonderful; one can get away with saying just about anything, as long as it sounds good.

Aren't I awful?

Slightly more seriously...I find that there are problems with your friend's theory. The first, and perhaps most important, is that ASD is such a nebulous condition, to speak of an "Asperger's mind" is not something I would be inclined to do; ASD seems to present so differently, and it's such a subjective experience, that a monolithic "mind" seems unlikely. This may not be quite correct, but it's catchy, and more importantly, true (cheeky!): my rule of thumb is that I get wary when someone uses the singular to describe the plural.

Another issue is that the model of our brain, as presented by your friend, strikes me as not so much difference by degrees as difference by type. I could grant that such a way of (not) processing the past could exist. But if it were generally true, it's such a difference that it might indicate that we have been slightly separated from the rest of humanity. Some in the Autism community already believe that to be the case; I don't. Nor do I want to.

I have to point out, what is proposed in the theory is simply not my experience. When around anger and the threat of violence now, I react very powerfully, in a way that's usually beyond my conscious control, based upon things that happened around a half-century ago! That is a stark, vivid (well, to me) example of my very much having internalised experiences which still have a profound effect upon me. Rest assured there are also examples of a warm and comforting variety.

The notion that we are "others", "freaks" who operate solely in the realm of the intellect is not a notion that I find compelling. Again, could it happen? Sure. But, it ain't me! And going by what I have read in the past, and what I read (sometimes between the lines) here on this forum, it ain't all of us...and it probably is next to none of us. Perhaps it's an issue of awareness. I am not just at times blind to your emotions, I am often blind to my own emotions. So, in the past, not having a diagnosis of ASD, I might very well have described myself as an unemotional, highly rational person. All the issues from my youth have been figured out, I am not bothered by them, thank-you muchly.

I'm a little smarter than that, and I vaguely intuited that there was something wrong with my self-description, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it...

If one was to attempt to construct a theory about about those on the spectrum based on their self-reported experiences, that theory is likely to be flawed. For example: I didn't know what the emotions panic or anxiety were until I was fifty. Was my life being affected by those emotions? Oh, yes it was, very much so. But it wasn't until, when in the midst of a conversation with someone who was pretty sharp, I started to have a panic attack. She said, with no hesitation, "you're having a panic attack." I know immediately she was right, and the scales fell from my eyes.

I became more open to the idea that I am not just an emotional creature, I am a very emotional creature. And sometimes those emotions come from a very deep place, like every other human being. What I find is that those emotions aren't always experienced directly, they often have to be filtered through the intellect so I can not only make sense of them, but so that I can know that I have them. A great deal of trouble in my life has occurred when emotions, dark memories, the unconscious if you will, has acted upon me without going through that intellectual filter. Gee, and not to be repetitive, doesn't that sound like something every other human being goes through!?

Being blind to how your feelings is alexithymia
Alexithymia - Wikipedia

Perhaps why I don't like being asked how I'm doing.... didn't used to have the first clue. Answer would be 'the same' you can't really answer that one with 'don't know' or 'not sure' which would be nearer the truth
 
I used to be a bit of a misanthrope, until I started to have a fascination for psychology. Now thanks to it I understand people better, and while there are some things that they commonly do that are just ridiculous and unfair, I am more able to empathize with them and to remember that deep down, they're still human beeings with feelings, and that many of their wrongdoings and stupid actions come from fear, insecurities, ignorance, etc., just like it is for me.
 
The soft sciences are wonderful; one can get away with saying just about anything, as long as it sounds good.

Aren't I awful?

Slightly more seriously...I find that there are problems with your friend's theory. The first, and perhaps most important, is that ASD is such a nebulous condition, to speak of an "Asperger's mind" is not something I would be inclined to do; ASD seems to present so differently, and it's such a subjective experience, that a monolithic "mind" seems unlikely. This may not be quite correct, but it's catchy, and more importantly, true (cheeky!): my rule of thumb is that I get wary when someone uses the singular to describe the plural....

...I became more open to the idea that I am not just an emotional creature, I am a very emotional creature. And sometimes those emotions come from a very deep place, like every other human being. What I find is that those emotions aren't always experienced directly, they often have to be filtered through the intellect so I can not only make sense of them, but so that I can know that I have them. A great deal of trouble in my life has occurred when emotions, dark memories, the unconscious if you will, has acted upon me without going through that intellectual filter. Gee, and not to be repetitive, doesn't that sound like something every other human being goes through!?

Thanks for your considered reply, Alcyon. You make some interesting points, and I agree wholeheartedly with your observations about emotions - frustration, anger and terror are never far below my controlled exterior. I was cynical about certain aspects of this theory, and quite frankly, it took me a while to get my head around it, but I have done it no favours if I gave the impression that it professes to be a 'fix-all' for everyone with Aspergers. No, and it was not my intention to make it sound like this. You are quite right to note the enormous variation of experience and perspectives, and this theory does not attempt to encompass everyone in that sense. I simply find it an intriguing take on a very well established and respected arm of psychotherapy.

I am not a psychologist psychiatrist, or anything similar but, like many Aspies, I have seen my fair share of them over the years, and have always come away thinking that there was a barrier to real communication - they didn't understand my world, and I didn't know what they wanted from me... Having now seen this theory in practice, and the way it seeks to provide a communication pathway for these professionals, (whose job it is to help us manage at our most vulnerable times), it seems such a simple thing, but the results can be really powerful. It really isn't much, but it is so much more than I have experienced before.
 

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