Are most aspies spiritual in nature or atheist?

[Tanya]

Just wondering...

 

[AspergerianYogi]

That's an interesting question. My first instinct is to go back to the truism that if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism. Spirituality (including atheism - I know a lot of atheists who consider themselves spiritual) is a very, very personal journey that an individual embarks on to seek their own answers to abstract questions that everyone asks at some point during their lifetime. Some people find their spirituality in proclaiming themselves vampires and living their lives accordingly - there's a Tyra Banks episode on it, you should check it out:

But yeah - man...that's a tough question. I'm with you on this one - I'd be curious to find out, too.

 

[Ste11aeres]

My personal experience is that it depends on the individual person.

 

[Tankgirlboy77]

I don't know about most aspies and I don't know about it being in their nature, but I sort of class myself as spiritual even though I come from an atheist starting point, and have difficulties with the idea of God. I've cobbled together a philosophy, moral code and contemplative practice from bits here and there, and even had a sort of spiritual awakening to something I'm hesitant to call God, but don't have a word for otherwise.

I think it's been necessary for me to explore religion because I'm often uncertain about many things including the "big questions". I've had a lot of anxiety about the fear of "dropping out of existence", so have had to explore explanations for what holds existence "up", as it were. This is obviously the domain of metaphysics and religion. I also looked to religious thoughts on morality and how we should relate both to ourselves and to others. I definitely follow what I understand as Jesus's moral teachings. I think aspies will generally relate to these sorts of anxieties, so this might make them more likely to explore religion, although it is just as likely I suppose to send them looking for answers from science (not that those two are necessarily opponents).

Finally, I gain a lot of encouragement and inspiration from spiritual heroes, Saints, monks and hermits. I think aspies can probably relate to spiritual loners looking for ways to live peacefully with the world and looking for wisdom.

 

[Cosmophylla]

I agree that it depends on the person.

Let's hypothesise, then. If you equate atheism with "truth-seeking", fact, realism, pragmatism, and science, and spiritualism with religion, belief, faith, and deism, then I suppose we could assume that there are more atheists than spiritualists on the spectrum. This assumption would be based on the stereotype that people on the spectrum prefer fact over opinion, but I don't know enough to claim knowledge of this. It's an hypothesis only.

I am an atheist but I also see many other members on this site are spiritual in one form or other. Also, the meaning of "spiritual" likely changes from one person to another.

 

[Cosmophylla]

Tankgirlboy77, I agree about following a moral code. Although I don't class myself as spiritual in any way (despite having explored many forms of spirituality in search of the "truth"), I do follow what have been called "Christian principles". I really hesitate to call them that because I don't see how Christianity can claim these as its own... Common decency, respect for others, etc., isn't purely the domain of one religion, leaving everyone else classed as evil. So I would say I am a "good" person, I practice honesty, decency, respect, humility, temperance, peace, etc. "Good" values. I don't see these as spiritual and I don't follow this code in order to reap a reward when I'm dead. I do it because it makes sense to be nice to others and to myself. We would have chaos if nobody was nice to anyone else.

Pragmatism aside, though, it feels good inside to be kind to others. It feels right. I just follow that inner compass.

 

[ASD_Geek]

Personally, I am a Christian.

 

[Tankgirlboy77]

Tankgirlboy77, I agree about following a moral code. Although I don't class myself as spiritual in any way (despite having explored many forms of spirituality in search of the "truth"), I do follow what have been called "Christian principles". I really hesitate to call them that because I don't see how Christianity can claim these as its own... Common decency, respect for others, etc., isn't purely the domain of one religion, leaving everyone else classed as evil. So I would say I am a "good" person, I practice honesty, decency, respect, humility, temperance, peace, etc. "Good" values. I don't see these as spiritual and I don't follow this code in order to reap a reward when I'm dead. I do it because it makes sense to be nice to others and to myself. We would have chaos if nobody was nice to anyone else.

Pragmatism aside, though, it feels good inside to be kind to others. It feels right. I just follow that inner compass.

Everything you suggest as problematic about religious morality I agree with. However, if you read Jesus not as a religious teacher per se - he actually criticises the religion of his day, and to my mind (although I don't want to cause offence to true Christians here) he would be horrified by much of the things that have been said and done in his name - but read him purely as a humanistic moral philosopher, he certainly gives enough reason for radical goodness being something to practice for the sake of this life. I read him as bringing the promise of religion down to earth, in the here and now, centering morality in the human heart etc. No, he's not the only religious figure to do this. I think most religions share this basic understanding of human goodness and love (although his is one of the few truly social in its outlook, he really is concerned with the sufferings of this world unlike many eastern religions that teach escape). I believe this to be the case because morality springs naturally from the human heart/mind. Why this is I'm not sure; there may well be a purely scientific, evolutionary explanation. And neither am I a Christian. I was a Buddhist for about five years, but had to leave that for various reasons, so now I try to embrace the good bits of many religious ideas, although I don't accept things uncritically.

I read Jesus in the same way I read many of the Stoic philosophers, especially Musonius Rufus. Their moral teachings are strikingly similar, and Christianity actually borrowed a lot from stoic ideas through history.

I also think we ought to recognise the importance and impact Christian ethics have had on concepts of human rights and in shaping modern western morality. When you study morality from a philosophical perspective you start to realise how difficult it really is to prove any particular claim. This is especially true in our increasingly relativist world, where we nonetheless want to hold onto the ideals of Christianity that have shaped our culture. I think atheists can have a hard time in grounding their moral claims without actually appealing to concepts of our Christian past. I don't wish to start an argument, that's just my two cents and I may indeed be wrong, it's just how I've started to understand moral philosophy. I think Nietzsche recognised this imminent moral struggle with the loss of Christianity from our lives. Obviously he was far more critical of it, but his writings are full of the fear of nihilism and wondering about how we will deal with things without that moral structure.


I'm not making an absolute claims here, this is only my interpretation and how it affects my view on life. I don't believe anyone else should agree with me or be damned! I don't judge anyone in any way. We all have to make peace with ourselves in any way we can. Live and let live. In fact I'm more likely to judge people if they just accept what other people have said and uncritically base their lives on this. I'm a big fan of critical questioning, but I recognise also that faith often is a useful thing and I do have great respect for people of faith who have come to their convictions after a sincere personal journey. We all have to find a way to live, and if you have found your way and remain true to your integrity and are existentially honest, then good for you.

 

[Cosmophylla]

Tankgirlboy77, sure, I agree with you about everything you have said. In the west we have been shaped by Christianity, like it or not. And I agree that there continue to be many horrific things done in that religion's name that run counter to Jesus' philosophical teachings. (Our last prime minister is a good example of someone who likes to talk about Christian principles but who is also one of the most bigoted people I've seen.)

I really admire the amount of effort you've put into studying philosophies. And thanks for articulating your findings so well. This is a topic I've always struggled to put words to.

 

[Jonathan Lees]

it depends on the person, im not spiritual, i was brought up a Christian but as the old joke goes "the best way to become an atheist is to read the bible" saying that im not an atheist as i believe though god cant be proved he cant disproved either therefor i am instead an agnostic who is very cynical of our world human religions.

 

[karen70]

I'm personally trying my best to open my mind to many ideals of what is or what could be.

Previous to learning the word 'aspergers' (which i'd never figured myself), I felt to tally wronged by life and experiences.

There wasn't much to be proud of and I always considered I felt like I should have been a boy, if born at all. I figured my upbringing didn't help me at all and was the lay blame for me being in a world in which I not only didn't fit but was also sneered at for having my stupidly ignorant but massive ways in which I cared for others more than myself. Felt I was not only thrown to the floor, but kicked and stamped on, none of which I ever recovered, the burn outs seemed for me extreme exhaustion that I could never understand or 'shake off' as a few people in life put it to me.

After the studying in college of person centered therapy and uncovering many of my hidden deep seated issues, blocks etc I began to feel like 'wow, there's a massive world here that I never noticed before'.... I totally felt like I had achieved a massive triumph.

BUT, then I was given the word 'aspergers' at the same time as being given the word 'twin flame'.

There were very real coincidences that kind of had a snow ball effect with people I knew being linked in a very fluent way. My partner of that time, family that i'd not spoke to for years etc.

Here is my point, I now believe after study that the reason for so much dysfunction between me and particularly my young sons dad was that we were very very similar. We often expressed how exact we were but opposite also. For example the same tastes, the same kind of music, but he was very outwardly loving and I was very introvert. It was a very painful relationship. We could not have time apart unless it was the last straw. Love the way you lie... Eminum was our song. We would always get back together, but nothing would change. I still hadn't found my voice and he hadn't learnt to whisper. I eventually fled.

When I was given the word 'twin flame', I read up on it... and if you ask me it describes to a T the relationship between two people who have undiagnosed aspergers syndrome. If you read up on it then let me know what you think

I have to believe in life after death, I must have been a mass murderer in my last life. In my next life I want to be me, nothing else, just me.

 

[Ste11aeres]

If you equate atheism with "truth-seeking", fact, realism, pragmatism, and science, and spiritualism with religion, belief, faith, and deism,

Except that "truth-seeking, fact, realism, pragmatism, and science," and "religion, belief, faith, and deism," are not antithetical to one another. One person can have/seek all of these things. Not only "not antithetical" but religion and deism definitely are about truth-seeking, albeit sometimes by different means or in regards to different things than is the case with science.

The difference between an atheist and a religious person isn't that one of them seeks truth and the other doesn't. It's that they disagree over what actually is the truth in regards to the existence of God. But they can both value truth equally, and seek it with equal fervor. (And they will both be equally ready to explain how the other person failed to find the truth).

 

[EricD]

I'm a Christian, stained and pitted by my own inperfection, for sure. Considering what I've been throughin my life, only God is strong enough to help me through it. Sometimes I'm not as thankful or faithful as I should be but I'm not perfect. To use a golf analogy, I often miss the sweet spot. I'm a lost ball in high weeds and He's looking for me. I'm an impefect Aspie in an imperfect world. FORE!!!!!

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Well, the cliché is that aspies are logical and are less inclined to soak up societies bs, so from that one might assume that more would be atheist... but that's just my perspective as an atheist who cannot fathom why anyone of intelligence and education would be religious.

 

[EricD]

There are things science and logic will never be able explain (sorry Spock), like the nature of good and evil, or the reason some people are able to survive horrific situations when other more fortunate people succumb to far less. Logic isn't a universal problem solver. Humans, like our good friend Spock says are highly illogical. No pointed ears on THIS Aspie!

 

[Cosmophylla]

Except that "truth-seeking, fact, realism, pragmatism, and science," and "religion, belief, faith, and deism," are not antithetical to one another. One person can have/seek all of these things.

Agreed, which I why I stated it was purely hypothetical. (I wasn't expounding that as my own view, if that's how it came across.) Under the conditions I described ("if A is thus and B is thus, we can assume C") we could make an assumption, which is in itself a dangerous thing.

Also, as you described, "truth" is indeed in the eye of the beholder. For me, "truth" is fact, irrefutable, objective knowledge, supported by evidence and logic. For others, "truth" may be subjective, personal, deeper in meaning, and beyond words.

My opinion is that spirituality and religion are not the same thing. In my eyes, spirituality is more related to philosophy than religion is. Perhaps I could describe it this way: to me, spirituality is looking at where we are now and where we are going, whereas religion is looking at where we have been. Spirituality is individual, while religion is communal. (Religions are a bit like clubs; you can sign up and join in.

Also, EricD, I respect your point of view but I think that science and mathematics can (or will at some point) explain these things. (But then, I am a Trekkie, haha) That's not to say we shouldn't philosophise about it.

(Just a final point here: I have no desire to offend, cause controversy or be confrontational. There are many, many negative things I could say about organised religion, but I keep that to myself. I know how important others' beliefs are to them and I have no place to interfere with that. Plus, I like AC too much to want to hurt my friends here.
Which brings up an interesting point that may be irrelevant in this particular discussion: if science is fact and spirituality is belief, what about those times when we use the words, "we believe..." to postulate a scientific theory? ah just being silly...)

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

There are things science and logic will never be able explain (sorry Spock), like the nature of good and evil, or the reason some people are able to survive horrific situations when other more fortunate people succumb to far less. Logic isn't a universal problem solver. Humans, like our good friend Spock says are highly illogical. No pointed ears on THIS Aspie!

I think I must be misunderstanding what you are trying to say here, because as far as I'm aware these things are already easily explainable...

 

[EricD]

Not everything is easily explained, compare. Why am I an Aspie, & not Shaniqua from Topeka? Why was I born to woman that makes the Wicked Witch of the West look like a Girl Scout? Why not Joe Blow from Kokomo? That can't be explained. The universe isn't 100% physical or 100% spiritual. I'm a fairly logical guy, no Spock mind you, but as good as reason is, it can't explain the nature of evil, something I am unfortunately well acquainted with.

 

[Bellatrix]

Well, the cliché is that aspies are logical and are less inclined to soak up societies bs, so from that one might assume that more would be atheist... but that's just my perspective as an atheist who cannot fathom why anyone of intelligence and education would be religious.

Overlooking the insult here, I myself can understand the logical coherence in postulating the existence of an ultimate, transcendent and non-contingent explanation for why there is what there is. It need not be any of the traditional 'gods' (in fact, I would be really surprised if any of those gods did turn out to be real), but rather what some have referred to as an ultimate ground of being. That is, the point at which one can say that the necessity for finding an explanation that circumvents the infinite regress issue regarding possible explanations, is satisfied.

Those who believe physical reality to be all there is or could possibly be, are engaging in serious intellectual overreach. In spite of what S. Hawking may believe (i.e. "philosophy is dead" - The Grand Design) the question itself is one that only philosophy and logic can actually address, the methodology of science being - by design - an inappropriate tool for the task. Yet... so many believe that if 'science' says this or that, then that is that. No, it isn't. 'Science' does not ever say anything: scientists, on the other hand, do, and being human they are susceptible to all of the flaws that everyone else is susceptible to, such as bias. The method of science was developed to overcome this inadequacy, but it also isn't perfect (although, in my own personal opinion, it is the best method of uncovering the truth we have). However, even having said this, I realise that other disciplines, like philosophy, are intrinsically valuable for their own reasons, and I believe it is extremely important to not fall into the (once again, philosophical) trap of scientism.

Yes, 'Aspies' do tend to be more logical than most people, but there is so much more to us than just logic. We are not automatons, or shallow cariacatures like Spock or Sheldon Cooper, and yet for some weird reason the majority on this planet expect us to behave the way they do. Fascinating, as Spock might say.

 

[Bellatrix]

I think I must be misunderstanding what you are trying to say here, because as far as I'm aware these things are already easily explainable...

'Easily explainable', are they? Okay then, let's hear your 'explanations'. Come on, don't be shy. You can start your own discussion about it, with the title being, "Good and Evil: A Naturalist's Account That Fully Refutes Supernatural Explanations" (or something like it).